Post Mordems and Reflections




house.34.283: gregor markowitz (muddy) Thu 6 Oct 94 06:51

RE: do we need all this tech to connect:

There is one big difference between the WELL and a rave.
On the well, you type in a message and I read it. Also {jonl}
{duck} and {cubensis} read it, but the message is one to one
and I have a turn to respond.

With a huge subwoofed system, one person makes very loud sounds
that everyone in the area must listen to with no chance to input
beyond being part of a mass statistic.

There are many people on the WELL I agree and disagree with.
I'm just happy I don't have to endure 2 hours at 120db from
each one.

What you really need is a rave where each person has a personal
sound receiver and all the dj's play to a common beat at the
same time. Each dancer could dance to the same beat, but to
entirely different music. Can I at least get a r respond or
p pass button?

Here at my club in DC, the Internet Love Fest, no videotaping
or sound recording is allowed and neither is the playing back
of any pre-recorded sound. I mix only live feed. Sure, It's
boring if you're used to the whiz-bang slick spectacular
spectacle media BUT now I have a clean slate free from the
noise of soul-catching magnetic tape and mass expectation.

It helps to have a bunch of remarkable creators with a clue
that canned culture is eating us.

Unfortunately, the more I try to avoid mass media, the more
famous I am getting. The one thing that really perks the
Washington Post, for instance, is a REFUSAL TO LET THEM IN
with their VILE DISTORTION MACHINE. I've had to hire a lawyer
to threaten them with legal action if they don't respect the
club's anonimity. So far the line that says love fest is like
a 12 step group that can heal real people if not exploited
has held.

Cultural "black holes" are power.
-gregor

house.34.284: temporary autonomous clone (dpd) Thu 6 Oct 94 07:55

best of luck fighting the media machine Muddy.
The one thing that struck me about that rave broadside, is thinking the
scene needs a spokesperson. it seems to have grown very nicely without one.

house.34.285: Robert Lauriston (duck) Thu 6 Oct 94 10:48

If you don't allow playback of prerecorded sounds, what sounds are
going into your live feed?


house.34.286: jonl (jonl) Thu 6 Oct 94 12:28

what i wondered.

y'know, it's funny...at fringeware we've worked hard to spread our
memes, and now we find we're working hard to retain our boundaries,
as well. when you do media, and what you're doing is working on some
level, you do lose control of the exposure...

house.34.287: Jonathan E. (jeve) Thu 6 Oct 94 13:56

The eternal dilemma of the counterculture in all its iterations.

house.34.288: Natural Born Raver (cubensis) Thu 6 Oct 94 16:13

My experience with the mainstream media changed my view considerably. In
college I majored in political communication, and as such I was one cynical
Chomsky-readin' genx.

This summer, networking with the journalists and editors who were all worked
up over the Wired piece, I witnessed a lot of "pronoid conspirators"
rallyng to the standards of positive memes.

Even the neo-wobblies have their "moles", jonl...
and muddy, your experiments with emerging technologies are showing you the
answers to your own questions, aren't they? The decentralizing potential of
sound generating/manipulating tech, not to mention telecom, allow a global
analysis of meme, and the inevitable spin put on the more high-profile
of them by the mainstream press.

Kind of a evolutionary checks and balances.

It goes back to what I saiearlier about pronoia vs. paranoia.
Polly Anna wasn't all bad, after all... thoughts are things!

house.34.289: Knowledge (aasgaard) Thu 6 Oct 94 16:19

{AWAITING PERMISSION FROM THE AUTHOR}


house.34.290: Natural Born Raver (cubensis) Thu 6 Oct 94 18:26

rule number one: be careful how you talk to yourself.

house.34.291: Fuzzy Logic (phred) Fri 7 Oct 94 02:55

The Washington Post ain't so bad. The head music writer, Richard
Harringon, is my old boss back from the daze of the Unicorn Times.
He might not *like* certain things, but he has good taste and the
ability to explain why.

house.34.292: Larry Edelstein (ledelste) Mon 10 Oct 94 00:12

Note: paranoia is the *unreasonable* belief that people are out to harm you.
I think "pronoia", given this restatement of definition, becomes a
wonderfully accurate and ironic statement about Zippies, from the crap I've
read.

As far as raves: can anyone tell me how the hell this phenomenon could
evolve into some meaningful movement? Give me a scenario.

house.34.293: Robert Lauriston (duck) Mon 10 Oct 94 09:35

Same way the be-ins of the 60s did.

house.34.294: Natural Born Raver (cubensis) Mon 10 Oct 94 10:15

Here's a scenario form real life:

This summer I was at a 5000-person rave called Narnia, held near San Diego
(and the Mexican border). While I was spinning in a state of rhythmic
ecstacy, I noticed a strange motionless group of people behind me. I turned
while I danced, and saw a formation of obvious gang members, standing in a
defensive triange, arms crossed, hats cocked... you know the type.

I made it a point to observe them over the next hour. Slowly, as one raver
after another swirled around this macho cadre, I witnessed the dissolving of
a hostile, alienating paradigm.

"Doood. Deese chumps are BUGGIN'!"

They were right. People WERE buggin'. But, in a wonderfully typical "rave"
fashion... smiling, laughing, wearing very outrageous clothing. Instead of
being threatened by the vast diversity of class and race around them, they
were *so* out of their element, the gangstas could do nothing but marvel at
all these colorful people.

One particularly "Bjork-like" raver came up to the head gangsta and said:

"Want some bazooooooooka bubble gum?" with a huge sparkling smile.

"uh, sure". said the macho gangsta, and I watched as the last vestiges of
his defensive facade crumble.

That seems pretty meaningful to me, Larry.

house.34.295: Young Owl Hatching (owlmed) Mon 10 Oct 94 12:14

{WORDS DELETED BY REQUEST}

house.34.296: Robert Lauriston (duck) Mon 10 Oct 94 14:15

A late-80s youth culture phenom, basically an all-night disco dance party,
typically with a significant percentage of the participants high on MDMA.

house.34.297: Natural Born Raver (cubensis) Mon 10 Oct 94 14:41

I'm not really a "raver" so to speak... the baseline, original definition
has evolved, and suits whichever cultural demographic is "raving"...

I would look deeper into "g house" -the rave conference here on the well,
where this topic originated. I'll offer an attempt at defining rave, if you
wish. Duck's opinion isn't inaccurate, but he doesn't sound as if he's ever
been to one, am I right?

Originally, there was this club in Chicago called the Warehouse, where DJs
would mixed "house" music in the mid-eighties. This transfered to Detroit,
where "acid house" developed. This did not refer to LSD, but to the feel of
the music, I guess. Some British artists took the acid sound to England,
where people took would take generators out to fields (screw permits,
li, etc) and danced all night to techno music (inspired by bands
like Kraftwerk, Brian Eno, etc..). This scene came back to the US, when the
goons of the Thatcher government began some seriously brutal repression.

Rave represented something those Tories are unable to deal with:

IMO, it's a spiritual thing. Rave represented a re-emergence of the
original Pagan roots of Britain, the Dionysian worship of life through
dance, sensuality, mind-altering states. This states can be induced by the
repetitive beats of a drum, or by the herbs and fungus which grow around the
globe, or by many other paths. Yes, MDMA (or ecstacy, or "E", or "X")
played an important part in the formation of the scene, due to it's early
legal status (before a ridiculous classification and criminalization law
made it illegal). E makes people loving, trusting, and tribal, in my
experience.... thus it's suitability to the rave scene.

These days, there is techo music with a reggae color, there is hardcore,
there is a dancy-house type, ambient, and many other varieties. It is a
global phenom, begun in the 80s, adapting a very ancient form of communal
bonding, celebration, worship, and healing... back to the oldest shaman's
drum. Anything I left out, anybody?

house.34.298: Young Owl Hatching (owlmed) Mon 10 Oct 94 15:41

{WORDS DELETED BY REQUEST}

house.34.299: Fuzzy Logic (phred) Mon 10 Oct 94 18:08

There really *is* a connection, but the "rave" scene (or what I would
currently call, for lack of a better term, the "underground dance party"
scene) blends into the commercial "club" scene and the music being
played is not an absolute marker of the type of event. For example,
I've played "Sensual Motion" by Oxy at a definitively underground "rave"
event, but it was a track that made the pop music charts in Britain
last year and I walked into a restaurant the other night playing the DMX
dance music channel and heard it there too.

Before the "rave" concept solidified into the commercialized warehouse
sound-and-lights-all-night party, it was a reaction against the commercialism
of the club and radio scene, a chance to break away from the conformist bonds
of that kind of thing and get back to a purer and communicative style of
relating to your body, your mind, the music, the environment around you,
other people. *That* is where the spiritual aspect lies, across the dimensions
of trance music and dancing and ritual. It still happens regularly if not
predictably at the small, non-commercial gatherings many of us try to attend
and in some cases organize.

house.34.300: Larry Edelstein (ledelste) Tue 11 Oct 94 00:19

Cube, that's a beautiful story; I wish I had been there.

That's not really what a social movement is to me. My friends have been to
a rave here in SF where gangbangers showed up and kicked the shit out of
people.

I'm interested in people doing something at the rave that actually lasts
(besides arranging more raves, that is) or people from the raves getting
together and doing something about...something. I realize that's pretty
vague.

house.34.301: Natural Born Raver (cubensis) Tue 11 Oct 94 08:44

NO that's not vague, I see what you're getting at.

Well, healing can last- and that can *definitely* happen at a rave. All
transformation begins on the personal level, and then naturally flows to a
community level as critical mass is gained.

Actual, physical things that happen at a rave that can classify it as a
social phenomenon? Well, my degree is in poli/sci, and I've worked on
campaigns, etc... in journalism, etc.. and the counterculture was for me a
"hobby" and closet lifestyle.

Now, (for lack of a better term, and I resist saying "zippy", tho that's
accurate) RAVE is more like my raison d'etre, and politics is a hobby.

Why the flip-flop? Because 90s youth culture promises to be POST-WESTERN.
That is, not attached to dualistic, Cartesian notions of reality, the self,
the planet, polics, etc. The POST-WESTERN is not Eastern, and it's not
Western. Its taking the best from each-- like the generators, DJ rigs and
laptops of the industrialized world (acting like a non-hierarchical, de-
centralized form of communication), and the spiritual community tools of a
(*ahem*) tradition that rejects patriarchal monothesim and the repressions
it represents. When you add a little booth with underground media, next to
your smart bar... or project environmental scenes on yr visual display...

THAT'S political.

house.34.302: Larry Edelstein (ledelste) Tue 11 Oct 94 09:18

I'll think about that. Thanks for the elaboration.

house.34.303: Robert Lauriston (duck) Tue 11 Oct 94 09:36

I thought the spiritual aspect came from the MDMA. That's why I usually
compare the rave scene with the 60s be-ins, which were suffused with
chemically induced peace and love.

Doing drugs, staying up all night, and dancing to heavily amplified music
can be a profoundly liberating experience for an inhibited person, but
the notion that there's something politically or socially progressive
about such activities is an illusion.

house.34.304: Natural Born Raver (cubensis) Tue 11 Oct 94 10:02


Even when that "inhibited" person, recently liberated on the dance floor,
goes downstairs to the "chill area", and his opened mind encounters freeform
discussion and debate in a "paradigm" university?

(For example, an activist from Greenpeace speaking over tones of Brian Eno,
or Terence McMushroom rapping about the difference between tobacco,
caffiene, and alcohol culture repressing the culture of herbs, organics and
psychedelics).

The next morning, are you SO sure that person will look back on the previous
nights' experiences and conclude his new knowledge is an illusion?

I'd like you to support that claim, duck.

house.34.305: Robert Lauriston (duck) Tue 11 Oct 94 12:07

That's a good example of what I was saying. Someone goes to a party,
hears a few new-to-them ideas, gets excited about them, and comes to the
false conclusion that that personally transformative experience reflects
a revolutionary social movement, when in fact it's just the individual
moving through a sort of cultural standing wave. From the inside, youth
culture always feels like it's changing the world.

house.34.306: Natural Born Raver (cubensis) Tue 11 Oct 94 13:08

Then I guess what you are *really* saying is that 90s youth culture is
overestimating the range and impact of what is happening-- extrapolating on
personal imprinting to conclude more people share these imprints than
actually do?

If I understand you correctly, then we disagree yet again, mon ami.
This time around, the fractal has global potential of the 60s, plus an
exponentially-growing network of Net communities based on the realities
of the 90s. Plus, we have techo music-- truly global and encompassing.

In the last year, I have personally seen the same kinds of phenom from
Europe (all over, not just UK), in New York/Baltimore/DC, in Iowa, in
Denver, all over California... and that's firsthand.

Over the net, the Zippies received hearty agreements from people in Brazil,
Netherlands,
Australia, Japan, Canada, Germany, Mexico, India... and most every state in
America. Sure, this happened in the sixties to some degree, but nobody had
aptop for telecom and desktop publishing... just good drugs.

In the 90s, we have upgrades of BOTH. :-)

house.34.307: C J Silverio (ceej) Tue 11 Oct 94 13:12

{AWAITING PERMISSION FROM THE AUTHOR}

house.34.308: C J Silverio (ceej) Tue 11 Oct 94 13:12

{AWAITING PERMISSION FROM THE AUTHOR}

house.34.309: Natural Born Raver (cubensis) Tue 11 Oct 94 13:42
{hidden}

house.34.310: Natural Born Raver (cubensis) Tue 11 Oct 94 14:57

sorry ceej!

for the sake of continuity, read post #305, #307, then #306.
I posted while ceej was writing.

(BTW nice to have you as a host, ceej!)

house.34.311: Knowledge (aasgaard) Tue 11 Oct 94 15:00

{AWAITING PERMISSION FROM THE AUTHOR}

house.34.312: Natural Born Raver (cubensis) Tue 11 Oct 94 16:35


right on!

house.34.313: Robert Lauriston (duck) Tue 11 Oct 94 16:56

Of course youth culture has a lasting effect on those involved in it,
and sometimes on the society as a whole, both sooner and later. However,
I can't think of an instance in which those effects resembled the visions
of social change youth-culture participants imagined at the time.

house.34.314: Knowledge (aasgaard) Tue 11 Oct 94 17:01

{AWAITING PERMISSION FROM THE AUTHOR}

house.34.315: Robert Lauriston (duck) Wed 12 Oct 94 10:51

The hippies thought pretty much the same thing. So did the Hitler Youth,
for that matter.

house.34.316: Natural Born Raver (cubensis) Wed 12 Oct 94 11:33

Hitler Youth... my but we are the instigator, aren't we, duck?

I don't recl Mein Kampf having a passage about all colors of the rainbow
loving eachother, like MLK, hippies, and ravers. Nor Did the Hitler Youth
promote a respect for individualism and free expression, as does rave.

What happened to you that you are such a cynic, duck?

house.34.317: RUSirius (rusirius) Wed 12 Oct 94 12:23

Hitler Youth. Hyppies...

house.34.318: RUSirius (rusirius) Wed 12 Oct 94 12:24

actually, make that Hitler Youth Party...

the spear of destiny is passed!

house.34.319: Knowledge (aasgaard) Wed 12 Oct 94 15:26

{AWAITING PERMISSION FROM THE AUTHOR}

house.34.320: Natural Born Raver (cubensis) Wed 12 Oct 94 16:08

You make several very good points, aasgaard.

Do you think it is plausible that the on-line infrastructure can be used as
a tool to break the tendency of "cuccooning", or just reinforce it? By that
I mean: as the notions of "space" change from proximity to relevance, and we
funnel all the dollars into prisons instead of prevention, etc...

Are you sure these forces are not controlled? (As I descend into a Robert
Anton Wilson paranoid spiral................!)

It's true, sometimes I need a good slap in the face.
"Wake up, you Pollyanna!"

But I'm the worst kind of idealist-- a reformed cynic.

house.34.321: Natural Born Raver (cubensis) Wed 12 Oct 94 22:35

oh yeah, rusirius--

ack!

pft!

house.34.322: Robert Lauriston (duck) Thu 13 Oct 94 08:34

I wasn't comparing ravers with Nazis, just using the Hitler Youth as an
extreme example of how a youth movement may not have the results the
participants imagine. They had free love, got in touch with nature,
lived communally, and thought they were building a new society based on
truth and justice.


house.34.323: Knowledge (aasgaard) Thu 13 Oct 94 18:47

{AWAITING PERMISSION FROM THE AUTHOR}

house.34.324: Natural Born Raver (cubensis) Thu 13 Oct 94 19:09

One of those nicely sculpted gardens, like those old English jobs sculpted
by anal-retentives, or a nice virgin plot of untamed nature?

I can see it now, sitting naked in a rainforest, menus dropping in front of
your eyes, driven by wetware. Balance restored.

Good craftspeople, neutral tools. Cuccooned yet part of the Gaian mind. :-)
A truely zippy TAZ. (I'm an Autonomedia nut, actually-- I read TAZ already,
but thanks for the excellent recommendation anyway!)

house.34.325: Fuzzy Logic (phred) Thu 13 Oct 94 19:18

The text for T.A.Z. is at hyperreal.com

house.34.326: jonl (jonl) Thu 13 Oct 94 20:32

I ftp'd it to the fringeware text menu.

house.34.327: a Bee Czar (spiros) Fri 14 Oct 94 22:06

{AWAITING PERMISSION FROM THE AUTHOR}


house.34.328: Fuzzy Logic (phred) Sat 15 Oct 94 15:48

The DJ is a dictator? Not at all. The flow goes both ways, believe me.

house.34.329: a Bee Czar (spiros) Sat 15 Oct 94 16:48

{AWAITING PERMISSION FROM THE AUTHOR}


house.34.330: Knowledge (aasgaard) Sat 15 Oct 94 17:55

{AWAITING PERMISSION FROM THE AUTHOR}

house.34.331: Natural Born Raver (cubensis) Mon 17 Oct 94 09:32

As Negativland says:

The most important word is still "free".

house.34.332: Robert Lauriston (duck) Mon 17 Oct 94 11:23

Clowns and ballerinas everywhere.

house.34.333: Natural Born Raver (cubensis) Tue 18 Oct 94 08:51

a carnival of chaos and magick

house.34.334: Robert Lauriston (duck) Tue 18 Oct 94 08:59

I like Contra Costa County almost all of the time.

house.34.335: Rodney Peck (rodney) Tue 18 Oct 94 09:45

ahhh... the big 10-8 place...

"but first you'll have to turn yourself invisible..."

house.34.336: RUSirius (rusirius) Wed 19 Oct 94 11:10

very stupid...

house.34.337: Robert Lauriston (duck) Wed 19 Oct 94 11:53

But, on the other hand, I still haven't found what I've been looking for.

house.34.338: self-transforming elf (cubensis) Thu 20 Oct 94 16:09

"Don't you get it--?!? The trial NEVER ENDS."

- Q

house.34.339: gregor markowitz (muddy) Tue 25 Oct 94 07:53

Better late than never...

DJ as dictator }} The DJ isn't really the dictator. The DJ is the
front the dictator wants the audience to see. The dictator is the
one who puts up the money for the hall, owns or rents the sound system
- usually someone we would not like as a performer.

I am forced to agree with R U Sirius. The potential for abuse of
the so called rave technology-redirection by Mr. Man is awesome.
But, I don't have to make anyone understand this -- just watch what
happens when the popularity grows to the level that the big dogs are
interested in.

On the streets of DC there is already an "alternative" uniform in
clothing and style.

Fraser Clark knew rave was dead, but the head is a long way from the body
so he went to harvest some more of the energy before the message reached
the nooks and crannies.

At this stage in western civilization, it would seem that every mass-
market consumer spectacle leisure entertainment commodity is inherently
a tool of control. Ja?


house.34.340: pass the vibe (cubensis) Tue 25 Oct 94 08:31

welcome back muddy!

I agree, the potential for abuse by means of "re-direction" is QUITE real.
It is, by definition, a *trope* or *turn*. Any fan of Robert Anton Wilson
will be able to tell you that.

But it works both ways.

I'll also agree with RU Sirius, quoted in bOING bOING:

"The only way you obtain dadaist spontaneity in a high-tech surveillance
society is by becoming a dadaist multinational corporation."

and I'll add another quote, from someone (I forget who) in the spirituality
conference here on the WELL:

"The Dark forces always try to keep one step ahead of the keepers of Light
by obscuring the Truth and attempting to exploit sacred knowledge."

I'll see your bet and raise you a tenner.



house.34.341: Robert Lauriston (duck) Tue 25 Oct 94 10:16

If you really believe that darkness and light stuff, you may need to
adjust your medication.

house.34.342: Knowledge (aasgaard) Tue 25 Oct 94 10:45

{AWAITING PERMISSION FROM THE AUTHOR}

house.34.343: pass the vibe (cubensis) Tue 25 Oct 94 11:38

oh shit, you're right.

That was TWO prozacs under a BLACK light.

Sorry, got confused.

house.34.344: gregor markowitz (muddy) Tue 25 Oct 94 12:30

Now as far as dictatorship, there is the sort of benevolant dictatorship
like we see in a moderated mailing list, like the FRINGEWARE list.

The point of this dictatorship is to insert a human filter into the flow
for the purposes of general clarity as well as to add the irrational.

A good moderator will not try to do what is just and PC all the time.
We could program a #$%&# machine to do that. The benevolant dictator
moderator will screen messages by mood and feeling, as well.

Wake up with a hangover and mass delete incoming messages regardless
of merit or timliness. Post something stupid
by some person you would like to have intercourse with.
Print the messages, tape them to a wall and throw darts at them
blindfolded, posting the most often punctured - it doesn't matter.

Irrational filters on the 'net are the soul - we may all just
be here to enter the so called "errors" into the system.

That was my problem with {jonl} and the Fware list.
He's so damn *responsible*...

house.34.345: RUSirius (rusirius) Tue 25 Oct 94 17:32

hey, watch out some INDIVIDUAL from your favorite subculture might do
something EXTRAORDINARY...

and as richard nixon said... "That would be wrong."

house.34.346: jonl (jonl) Tue 25 Oct 94 19:29

not so responsible, just didn't want to crash the system we were on.
mebbe with fringeware.com we can git mo irrational with the list, heh.
and muddy, you're onto us...we really do want to be benevolent dictators,
but in a larger sense, filthy rich, too, or just filthy.

(btw the list isn't dead, we're just tweaking it on fringeware.com til
it works optimally)

house.34.347: Fuzzy Logic (phred) Wed 26 Oct 94 02:01

I like what DJ Mind Motion said in the new issue of Urb: "We ain't about
to get rich off this, 'cause if we was out to get rich, we'd be rich
already."

house.34.348: gregor markowitz (muddy) Wed 26 Oct 94 06:43


Shelter and clothing are more or less free in the US and food can be
had for about a buck a day.
Rich is all inside the mind.

Without the FW list, I have to do a lot more work to keep up.

house.34.349: formulated for delicate tissues (cubensis) Wed 26 Oct 94 10:53

phred, you should bring a copy of that Urb interview down to Troc and show
it to Fraser on Saturday! :-)

house.34.350: perpetual dawn (miga) Wed 26 Oct 94 15:24

Muddy, I find it really upsetting to hear you say that raves are a front for
some shadowy dictator [the promoter.] We are obviously not participating in
the same rave scene, you and I. Here in SF I know many of the promoters,
and even the most egotistical and greedy ones are in it basically because
they are into it for what it is and not as a way to get rich or control
others. Putting on a party is a bloody lot of work, as others have
commented, and there are many easier [and more likely to work] ways to get
rich. Can you clarify yr comment? I feel I am being characterized as a
helpless robot-pawn of the evil overlord promoter, when that could not be
farther from the truth. Now, I could see it if raves were set up like
woodstock94...

I think this perception is just plain wrong.

house.34.351: formulated for delicate tissues (cubensis) Thu 27 Oct 94 09:28

I was at muddy's TAZ-space "Internet Lovefest", and I'm seeing the classic
struggle between the little Luddite on one shoulder and the netweaver on the
other...

miga, I though you had a positive spin on the *ravestock* part of
Woodstock2.0

what about it turned you off exactly?

house.34.352: perpetual dawn (miga) Thu 27 Oct 94 14:06

the Orb was stellar, no question. I was referring to the arcane rules,
metal detectors, insistance of the promoters that all cash transactions be
done with their aluminum scrip [the redemption stations closed down well
ahead of schedule] etc etc etc.

The people there sort of transcended most attempts at control, due to their
sheer numbers [and the fact that the "peace patrol" workers were being paid
7$ an hour so most were not motivated to work after the first day...] but
anyway, this was most un-ravelike.

Muddy, what makes you think that raves are like that? And please tell us
about your party.

house.34.353: gregor markowitz (muddy) Sat 29 Oct 94 14:17

Oh boy! more pronoid help!

There has been a small misunderstanding, {miga}. I apologize for
being unclear enough that you might think I was criticizing anyone's
relationship with their boss.

Simply all I mean by the dictator thing is that there is always someone
who owns the very expensive gear and someone (the DJ) who runs the
complicated equipment. The potential for abuse is hardwired into the
system.
At a rave, a couple of people have a lot more control over the happenings
than a large group of rave consumers have. Any time someone can yell
much louder than everyone else, there is potential for abuse.
That's all. My well friends seem to be the good guys who are trying to
deal with this disparity.

Now as far as {cubensis}, I must say this. I am neither a cynic or
a Luddite. I am able to leap large stacks of faith with a single bound.
I am pronoid beyond your wildest dreams. I, sir, am a believer.

Let's just turn it around. Given the new technologies and the new
ways to use them we have, why are the zippies doing the same old
thing? All this top down hyppie pyramid through the amplifiers is
just using the new tech in the same old way. Like Len Bracken tried
to say the other night - it just won't work even with all the wishful
thinking and good intentions in the world. Like a gifting pyramid,
I can prove to you that there is a built in hitch in the media game
that keeps you from ever "using" the system. They didn't build this control
structure to give it away to you.

You {cubensis} are the cynic and high tech Luddite.

I can take the high road.

Higher tech. Tech that truly serves the real needs of real people, not
just the dominator farmers who run our herd now.

We could use the computers to spread the power out. This is really
a fairly new thing. Nanarchy, electronic democracy. Experiments in
ambient environments wherein the dancers themselves control instead
of the single DJ. Maybe a system where the audience has certain DJ
override controls, at least one that turns up the sound as more
people hit the dancefloor. Then if no one was dancing, the music would
be soft - even if the DJ was an egomaniac. The J would have to make
more people dance by mixing what they wanted in order to make it louder.

When you have all of those higher tech toys spread out with the
patch cords and the like, remember that you have the choice to
wire in democracy or dictatorship. We CAN run the same gear without
hardwiring in the means to control large groups of people. I just
know it. I believe.

Better no music at all than more of Mr. Man's music.

That goes for all technical endeavors. We each should refuse to work
on hardwiring in systems of our own slavery.

We must trust. We must trust that if we build a throne for a dictator
even if we play in it for a period of time
soon there will be a dictator sitting in it.
thankyou for reading this.

-gregor

house.34.354: Jim Cyr (surfpunk) Sat 29 Oct 94 14:50

freedom of choice is what you have

freedom from choice is what you want

- mothersbaugh

all in all it's how we program the robots
and at our peril, we fail to recognize the robot within

there seems to be greater reward (in terms of immediate entertainment)
in criticizing the other robots . . . .


house.34.355: pass the vibe (cubensis) Sat 29 Oct 94 16:25

touche, muddy.


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