The Tour, Part III: Splinters and Tweezers

house.34.218: No Axes! Then I'm staying home (sforslev) Sun 14 Aug 94 21:54

One of the local radio stations is broadcasting from Woodstock.
They received an incredible packet of rules. No booze, no drugs,
no knives, no axes, no stakes in the ground are the ones my
husband remembers them mentioning, but there were a lot more.

house.34.219: Got them Taiwan blues... (aleonard) Mon 15 Aug 94 09:20

Most of which appear to have been ignored by the muddy masses.

house.34.220: With catlike tread (sumac) Thu 18 Aug 94 10:29


house.34.221: Wog (mc2) Thu 18 Aug 94 21:24


house.34.222: gregor markowitz (muddy) Fri 19 Aug 94 07:05

Yes! the muddy masses!
woodstock with AIDS }} the summer of glove...

'94 is more like the summer of hype. or, more precisly

'94 the summer that reality mopped the floor with hype.

summer of hype event organizer kit:
1. get $100,000
2. spend $98,000 on Ritchie Havens
3. Hope to hell other people (OP) bring the food, smoke, portapots,
sound, legal staff, and trashbags.

OPP }}} Other Peoples Pronoia: The uncanny feeling that someone is
supposed to be conspiring behind your
back to save your ass.

house.34.223: look out here it comes! (miga) Fri 19 Aug 94 14:30

Heh. the funny thing about woodstock, tho, is the the people who came
totally transcended and blew away the greed/control/etc plans of the
promoters. It was the 3rd largest city in NY at the time, and frankly
saturday night there were so many people there and it was so wild I was
afraid to go to sleep in the WELL tent [we slept with the computers and as
soon as we woke up we were on] yet it was almost totally peaceful, no tent-
stake stabbings, no wars between different factions of fans. The most
mayhem that happened was instigated by a band [green day.] The people there
blew away the hype, they transcended it and made a great scene happen. And
nobody was more surprised than me. Of course, as a raver, I KNOW the
promoters only have influence, not control. And campout parties are hardly
novel. But to see it happen on that scale and with that crowd [frankly
metalheads make me nervous] was an amazing experience and one that I'm glad
I was there for.

house.34.224: Robert Lauriston (duck) Sat 20 Aug 94 10:39

Not that surprising there were no tent-stake stabbings, since the
promoters had the security people confiscate tent stakes.

Trivia question: how many people died at Woodstock, Altamont, and
Woodstock '94?

house.34.225: Knowledge (aasgaard) Sat 20 Aug 94 11:30


house.34.226: Harris B. Taback (homefrie) Sat 20 Aug 94 13:40

Did anyone out there see Deelite play in the rave tent at woodstock? If so,
how were they?

house.34.227: look out here it comes! (miga) Sat 20 Aug 94 16:04

There weren't really that many security people compared to concertgoers and
many people didn't even have their tix checked, much less searches. I saw
plenty of tent stakes, some of them metal, as well as all manner of other
forbidden things. I was actually sort of being sarcastic about it.

DeeLite was fine, they aren't my favorite but they sounded good and seemed to
be having fun. They were on at 2:30 and it was really a concert scene then.

house.34.228: Robert Lauriston (duck) Sun 21 Aug 94 13:36

Who cares about any trivia question? Why do you think they call 'em
trivia, anyway?

house.34.229: gregor markowitz (muddy) Mon 22 Aug 94 07:22

Who would have ever thought that the Woodstock hype event would be
the TAZ of the year? From what I heard from those returning, the
security melted away to absolutly nothing and then the rain started.
My friends had a blast and never saw one security (the parking security
quit and the other security was pulled back to deal with cars and
stage matters.
The question I have is:
Was the Temporary Autonomous Zone at Woodstock caused by a breakdown
of the systems set up by the promoters or did they more or less
plan this to happen?

house.34.230: Robert Lauriston (duck) Mon 22 Aug 94 09:56

Chances of the latter approach zero.

house.34.231: perpetual dawn (miga) Tue 23 Aug 94 21:17

There's no way it could have been planned. In a way it was what they were
trying for [or selling] but I doubt they wanted it to be quite so real and
uncontrolled. Promoters only influence an event, they do not control it. I
have been to absolutely ubelievable parties with a $20 cover and I have been
to parties that should have been great but dragged, all because of the
people there. It was amazingly like a rave in some ways, but also very

house.34.232: in zippy pergatory (cubensis) Mon 29 Aug 94 14:59

muddy, OPP (Other People's Pronoia) is now added to your other now-famous
semiotic contribution: zippies are sizzle, not stirfry.

as the Arabs say: "trust in God, but tie your camel".


house.34.233: perpetual dawn (miga) Tue 30 Aug 94 22:46

So how did it work out in Arizona? Did OPP come through? d;)

house.34.234: natural born raver (cubensis) Wed 31 Aug 94 12:19

After discovering World Unity's lack of a site, and lack of responsibility
in communicating National Park and National Forest regulations to the
masses, the Zippy Pronoia Tour to US '94 spent two weeks trying to secure a
site in the most responsible, safe manner possible. Due to our mis-guided
trust in World Unity to come through with a promised site, sanitation, etc..
the Zippy Pronoia Tour was in a position to do too little, too late.

Last we heard from DJ Dimitry of Deee-Lite, people had gathered and found a
private site to party. Thats the last I heard. I hope everything went
smoothly and safely! I *DO* know that we sure did learn some lessons from
all this, and that OPP should be cleansed from any responsible person's

Trust in God, but tie your camel.

peace out.

house.34.235: Robert Lauriston (duck) Wed 31 Aug 94 15:37

Using OPP like that will get you into trouble eventually.

house.34.236: perpetual dawn (miga) Wed 31 Aug 94 22:04

Interesting! what next?

house.34.237: hot topical temples of hipness (kreth) Thu 1 Sep 94 11:58

They said they'll be at Burning Man. Me, I'm staying in SF for the Drum
Festival this weekend.

house.34.238: perpetual dawn (miga) Fri 2 Sep 94 20:08

Yes, lots of good parties in SF this weekend too.

house.34.239: John Bagby (cubensis) Tue 20 Sep 94 10:47

as the zippies are on a break-- and I'm not really in a position to chat--

can I make a shameless personal plug for some good reading?

The October "High Times" (Spin Doctors cover) is the "Cyber Tech" issue.

Besides the great articles on remote, cyberhydrponics, etc..

page 58 begins my very first published piece- I co-authored an interview
with John Perry Barlow (me and Hugh, the cyber guy at HT did the interview).

A most zippy entry into the world of publishing, if I may say! :

house.34.240: John Bagby (cubensis) Wed 21 Sep 94 13:41

The Barlow interview is now posted on the Grateful Dead conf (g gd)
as topic 1497

also, there are instructions on where to get LOTS of *juicy* internet
nuggets from High Times via Gopher.


house.34.241: What! No clever pseud yet?? (gregm) Wed 21 Sep 94 19:24

What is HT's gopher address? Do they have a Web server yet?

house.34.242: a pagan by any other name... (cubensis) Wed 21 Sep 94 21:39

right now they are located on Echo in New York:
from the OK prompt, type: gopher
choose item #5 - Zines, etc..

house.34.243: perpetual dawn (miga) Mon 26 Sep 94 15:52

Cool, thanks for sharing the info.

I was at the marina sunday chilling out and listening to Garth spin, when I
was handed a flyer for a party in SF called Megatripolis. I asked the guy
who gave it to me who was putting it on and he said the Zippies, and asked
if I'd heard of them. Yes, I said. Great, he said, do you know Frasier
Clark? He's here in town and we're opening a Megatripolis here with the
same format as the one in London. I'll check out the flyer when I get home
tonight... it's in my other jacket. I believe they are doing a free party
at the Troc to kick it off, sometime in October.

house.34.244: hot topical temples of hipness (kreth) Mon 26 Sep 94 18:41

They all eventually end up here anyway.

house.34.245: Paul Godwin - New Dog Music (dog46) Mon 26 Sep 94 22:33


house.34.246: Fuzzy Logic (phred) Tue 27 Sep 94 03:49

It's October 1, there were flyers around as early as Labor Day weekend.
I'm skeptical, and even though I'll be in SF this weekend I'll have
to be convinced to check it out.

house.34.247: pronoia is as pronoia does (cubensis) Tue 27 Sep 94 11:10

the thing about zippies, see- is it's a concept. the number of people who
are developing "zippy" projects is growing weekly, since July--

at least from what I've seen and experienced.

When the Zippy Pronoia Tour split with Fraser Clark this summer, he remained
in San Fran, working with Mark Heley, to either do a mag or a club.

Megatripolis UK has distanced itself (in the legal sense) from Fraser, just
as the Pronoia Tour distanced itself (in the karmic sense) from Fraser.

I partied at Megatrip for several months leading up to the Pronoia Tour,
and if Fraser gathered the same kinds of talent and skills around him as he
did in London-- iD/}UVbt should be an excellent club.

I hope the pattern does not repeat itself, and pronoia prevails...

house.34.248: pronoia is as pronoia does (cubensis) Tue 27 Sep 94 11:16

sorry 'bout the line noie above- to clarify:

The energy Fraser's charisma gathers can be wonderful and positive.
If the negative pattern does not interrupt, there's no reason to
believe his new SF crew won't be the same... could be kickin'!

house.34.249: a Bee Czar (spiros) Tue 27 Sep 94 11:17


house.34.250: pronoia is as pronoia does (cubensis) Tue 27 Sep 94 12:27

I don't want to give energy to a bad vibe.

All I'll say is the causes of both the UK and Pronoia Tour separations
are similar. Everyone should respect the work and resources of others, give
credit where credit is due, and refrain from selfish behavior...

at least those are pretty strong pillars in my definition of "pronoia".

pronoia is as pronoia does. that applies to EVERYONE.

house.34.251: David Cox (davidcox) Tue 27 Sep 94 20:49

What is Frasier's email address? Be cool to say "hi".

house.34.252: John Bagby (cubensis) Tue 27 Sep 94 22:36

this summer, he was online thru me... I have not seen him on the net
since, except indirectly through a Usenet posting

house.34.253: Mark Yeager (layzboy) Wed 28 Sep 94 13:28

I for one am very excited to check out the MEGATRIP. Ever since Frazier and
mixmaster morris blew my mind heart and soul with their track on Give Peace
A Dance 1, I've been craving more more more. Hope this vibe thrives.

house.34.254: perpetual dawn (miga) Wed 28 Sep 94 18:22

Barlow is guest speaker, and listed DJs are DRC, Dutch, Christoph and Goa
Gil. No ambient DJs listed though they say there will be a chilspace
upstairs in the Troc. Speaker will be in a warehouse nearby, apparently
also with ambient music. Too bad they don't list the ambient people, I'm
rather curious who they'll have. Upstairs at the Torc isn't much of a
chillspace though in a warehouse they could go all out.

house.34.255: Fuzzy Logic (phred) Thu 29 Sep 94 01:47

So the main thing is at the Troc after all? That could be OK, Groove
Kitchen was pretty fun there, the best time I've had at the Troc in a

With DRC, Susan and so on, this is a MUCH different event than I was
expecting, and is a must-go for me now.

house.34.256: gregor markowitz (muddy) Thu 29 Sep 94 08:04

...and they said rave was dead...
Fraser can spot those greener pastures. A lingering profit (prophet)
is a terrible thing to waste.
What's an ambient people? chilspace? Is that like newkid 14yearold
Xhug scootchdance? Is this like a baldspotcover peterpan thing?

I am clueless. I went to the raves and I still don't know what
you *really* get out of it. Does it really take all that technology
to "be" with other humans in '94???

house.34.257: John Bagby (cubensis) Thu 29 Sep 94 09:50

muddy river man, i love you!

house.34.258: hot topical temples of hipness (kreth) Thu 29 Sep 94 17:19

The Joan Jett cover of OPTION has a pretty good article on the "death of the
Techno scene" in L.A. and the return of House music.

Having said that, the article did seem lacking on the massiveness of Ambient
these days.

house.34.259: Robert Lauriston (duck) Fri 30 Sep 94 10:41

Since people use "ambient" to describe everything from Aphex Twin to
Stereolab, I'm not sure that massiveness is meaningful.

"The meaning of existence can be supplied by limiting a wide reality."

house.34.260: dog46 (dog46) Fri 30 Sep 94 14:18


house.34.261: Larry Edelstein (ledelste) Sun 2 Oct 94 00:34

Yes! House, deep house, techno-house, industrial house, ambient industrial,

Obsession is the word.

house.34.262: time bandit caught in a cage (cubensis) Sun 2 Oct 94 07:50

so, how wuzzit? The Megatripolis sequel, that is... anybody awake yet?

house.34.263: dog46 (dog46) Sun 2 Oct 94 11:57


house.34.264: RUSirius (rusirius) Sun 2 Oct 94 13:51

The door policy sucked. If Frazier can't line up a club that treats people
like human beings on the front end, he oughtta do it outside or something...

house.34.265: time bandit caught in a cage (cubensis) Sun 2 Oct 94 18:57

please see post # 250
I have no further questions, your honor.

house.34.266: Fuzzy Logic (phred) Sun 2 Oct 94 23:12

We were lucky and got in right around midnight without waiting too long.
The door is the Troc's to run and they did their usual bangup job of
making it more difficult and stupid than necessary. While we were
waiting someone got thrown out for "packing a bowl," as he put it, but
we saw him inside later.

Overall, it was a good party. This Megatripolis crew is NOT the bunch
of hanger-on types calling themselves Zippies who careened over the
landscape in the summer with CLark and gave the whole thing a bad name.

Instead, we had a fairly standard but relatively well-produced party.
The Troc was more decorated than I've ever seen, and there was a decent
sound system (I don't know if it's the house system or not, but there
were four sets of speakers hung up off the floor. Also some very nice
lighting effects. No lasers or projections, though.

The musical theme for MegaT apparently is "trance," so that's what we
got from DRC (very fine tribal/trance), Dutch (who started with sort of
boring techno and evolved into more interesting housey trance, but then
some people think *that* is boring!), the usual onslaught of unmixed,
static continental fast trance tracks played on dual DAT decks by Goa Gil,
then a DJ whose name I didn't catch but played an interesting hour of
medium-tempo stuff before falling off into more irritating sounds.

I had a good time and danced quite a bit, saw my friend Robert Smith,
jcourte's ex housemate, who's just moved to Venice, Cal to work with
Digital Domain. We saw {barlow} on the floor for a short while during
DRC's set, and {rusirius} and the Mondo crew.

There were a couple of interludes including one with a woman dancing to
sort of vaguely Turkish pop stuff with an interesting arrangement of
candles suspended from her head (kind of hard to describe). I guess
this sort of thing is standard for Mega, as is the use of a microphone
for announcements from time to time, which has never really been a prt
of the SF scene.

I think Megatripolis has interesting possibilities. They may want to bring
in more electronic goodies, and maybe bring in DJs with a wider spectrum
of sounds. But so far it's basically a good variant of the standard
commercial party format, so it remains to be seen if they can make an
impact on the SF scene in terms of party presentation.

house.34.267: perpetual dawn (miga) Mon 3 Oct 94 07:31

oh! I'm bummed I missed seeing Robert! We passed on the party cuz we
thought it would be too jammed... thanks for the review, Phred. Did you
check out the warehouse space?

We wound up not going otu at all... sunset has spoiled us completely for
indoor parties!

house.34.268: time bandit caught in a cage (cubensis) Mon 3 Oct 94 08:35

} Overall, it was a good party. This Megatripolis crew is NOT the bunch
} of hanger-on types calling themselves Zippies who careened over the
} landscape in the summer with CLark and gave the whole thing a bad name.

Hanger-on types? Hmmmm.. sounds like you REALLY have a grasp of the reality
of things... NOT.

We split with Fraser so we wouldn't careen over the karmic cliff with him.
If you consider people who sacrifice every personal resource, take enormous
risks, and try their hardest to spread the vibe of "pronoia" in the name of
Love, Earth, and Children "hangers-on"...
Well, then I guess we're guilty.

Your righteous judgement betrays gross ignorance of the facts, phred.

I *am* thrilled the party was a success. I can't condem ANY good vibe
generating event. In fact, MY karma is fully in support of Fraser's

Unfortunately, I couldn't attend myself because I'm working my ass off tto
pay the debt Fraser helped incur before he split for *greener* pastures for
HIMSELF. I don't hold grudges.. but unfair judgements from otherwise cool
people. Peace phred.

house.34.269: Fuzzy Logic (phred) Mon 3 Oct 94 13:01

Unfair? Gross ignorance? You're straining to reach a predetermined
conclusion, cubensis. As it happens, I've had more than enough
first-hand accounts from people all over the country about the behavior
of the so-called Zippy Pronoia tour to even bother worrying about this.

I have no interest in sorting out the stories about Mr. Fraser Clark.
I am sure he is an interesting fellow but I saw no need to talk with
him. When my friend Robert chatted with him for a moment about perhaps
getting some of the Detroit DJs out to spin for Megatripolis in the
future, Clark dismissed the notion, saying that MegaT is only interested
in trance styles. But it was a nice party and I hope Clark and his
friends can make a positive contribution to the SF scene.

house.34.270: time bandit caught in a cage (cubensis) Mon 3 Oct 94 14:29

Um, I don't feel like I'm straining, Phred. I've had *hundreds* of first-
hand compliments and thanks from people all over the country who had shared
the vibe at one of our events... like with Dimitry in NYC, or the after-
hours party at Allen Ginsberg's 70th b-day party (w/ Kesey and the
Pranksters) in Boulder, or the Rainbow Gathering mini-rave, or the VERY well
received SF party we threw on the night of the Jupit/comet collision.

Sure, there was a regrettable and unfortuante scene at ONE event in Santa
Cruz, but I hardly call that grounds for dismissal.

If you received first-hand accounts about "Zippy behaviour", perhaps you
should go back and ask those people just *which* zippies behaved
poorly... I think you may find that any broken promises, misleading hype,
or unpaid phone bills, etc. may be a trail that leads you to a certain well-
intentioned-but-unrealistic 50-something with a messiah complex.

That said, reasonable people can disagree, and like I said earlier, I don't
want to perpetuate a bad vibe. I can't *make* you believe anything, and
have no interest in doing so. But, I have seen posts you've left, and you
seem a very intelligent, aware person...

I also hope that "Clark and his
friends can make a positive contribution to the SF scene"

But I won't let the group of people who got Fraser *to* San Fran be dissed
unfairly, and not give some insight. I was there, after all.

house.34.271: Fuzzy Logic (phred) Tue 4 Oct 94 13:30

This gets to the core of my problem with the entire Zippy come-on. *Nobody*
of the self-identified Zippies ever needs to take responsibility for anything
because, like, we're all Zippies maaan, we're all part of the effort to
bring on the new era through technology and consciousness raising and
yadda yadda yadda. But oddly enough, as soon as someone starts dropping
hints about unpaid bills and unkept promises and uncivil behavior and
staying *way* beyond one's invitation as a guest in places around the
nation, well then, *those* people aren't to be counted in, they are the
ones who went astray, they are the followers of the self-appointed messiah
or the opponents of same, etc., etc., etc.

I am not saying anything at all about your personal actions and statements,
cubensis. You've been a good participant in the discussions here. All
I know is that the Zippy "thing" is the most blatant self-promoting and
amalgamating hype to come down the pike in a scene rife with self-promotion
in a very long time. And when it gets down to specific cases, what I have
heard, from people whose judgement I trust, is that the whole thing is
better left alone.

Megatripolis West I was a very good party. But I have yet to see that
Fraser Clark or any of the other self-proclaimed Zippies have much of
anything to offer in the way of increased consciousness, or even just
more innovative party attributes.

Sorry, this is a sore point with me, and now I'm going to clam up about it.

house.34.272: time bandit caught in a cage (cubensis) Tue 4 Oct 94 13:42

24 hours later, I think the above needs a final thought.

IMO, what rave is all about, what "alternative" or "progressive" music
scenes are all about, what zippies are all about can be distilled down to a
few pure elements:

love of music and dance
love of fellow humans
respect and love for diversity

and for some of us more squishy-types, its about real opportunities for
healing on the personal, community and planetary levels.

in political science they talk about "the obligation to play hardball"

in environmental activism, they talk about balancing the crusade lifestyle
with a lifestyle that communes with the beautiful ecosystems we're trying to
protect with all that righteous crusading.

I'll add another... let's talk about conspiracy.

There is a fine line between PRONOIA- the suspicion people are conspiring
* help * you, and

PARANOIA- the suspicion people are conspiring
to * harm * you.

Sometimes all that separates them is a leap of faith, and a belief that in
the final analysis, people are good.

I'm done, too.

house.34.273: Knowledge (aasgaard) Tue 4 Oct 94 16:00


house.34.274: Eddie Amazin' Blazin' Mystify Joe (mz) Tue 4 Oct 94 16:10

}} a scene rife with self-promotion

That about says it all. These folks are masters of self-promotion
from what I've seen here.

Masters in that they are incredibly adept at getting the message
out, whatever it is. Nothing wrong with that.

house.34.275: Robert Lauriston (duck) Tue 4 Oct 94 19:52

Delusions of persecution are only one of the possible symptoms of paranoia.
It's quite possible to be paranoid and believe the world loves you, as in
another classic symptom, delusions of grandeur--something with which some
of the self-styled Zippies are obviously all too familiar.

house.34.276: time bandit caught in a cage (cubensis) Tue 4 Oct 94 23:03

Duck, if we had only listened to you back in May.


house.34.277: Fuzzy Logic (phred) Wed 5 Oct 94 00:28

I think #272 was very well said, cubensis.

house.34.278: perpetual dawn (miga) Wed 5 Oct 94 13:27

Interesting posts here. I'd just like to respond briefly to what muddy
said about going to a rave and still not getting it, and asking if we need
technology in order to connect...

first of all, here we all are, connecting thru tech, and it is much more
needed here than to have a rave, where all you need is a gennie, sound
system and turntables - much lower tech. I think that both raving and
online are excellent uses of tech.

nextly, I'd like to repeat that not all raves are alike, there are good ones
and bad ones, so it's important to get to one that's representative of the
aspect of the scene that interests you... in other words, if you're
interested in connecting with people more than you're interested in, say,
outstanding visuals, consider going to an outdoor party, especially one in
the daytime. Otherwise it's like logging on Prodigy and deciding that the
online thing really just isnt that interesting...

as time goes on I have found myself becoming much more interested in the
little underground do-it-yerself kind of parties, especially outdoors, and
less interested in the overhyped and overpriced huge indoor commercial
events [though I'd much sooner go to a big ol 20$ warehouse rave than
clubbing or to most concerts!] It's just more fun.

house.34.279: time bandit caught in a cage (cubensis) Wed 5 Oct 94 19:57

I've decided to post a piece I picked up in Boulder this summer, floating
around the scene there. I'm curious to get everyone's reactions to it.

(posting pieces on the politics of partying portends a poetry of parlance!)
PARTY POLITICS (or the Politics of Partying)
by Duane Linstrom and Tim Schwartz
Boulder, Colorado (1994)

As the rave scene matures, it still remains unclear what it is exactly. Is
the rave scene a movement (either social, political, or religious), or is it
just a party scene? There are factors that lend evidence to either
perspective. At present the rave scene is in limbo between being a viable
movement and being a passing hedonistic trend.

Although there is a certain inherent morality present at rave environments
(for example: acceptance of alternative life styles, non-elitism, and
friendliness), there is no clear articulation of the values and principles
that make rave-culture unique. Rave culture cannot become a movement of any
sort without a consensus as to what it stands for and what it hopes to
accomplish. To achieve this consensus, the rave scene needs its own media
forum where ideas can be discussed. The rave scene will also need a
spokesperson to articulate and express its intentions to the world. Indeed,
the rave scene seems to crave a spokesperson (witness the adaption of
Terence McKenna as case in point). The rave scene needs people to stand up
and take the lead in order for group consensus to be achieved. Ideas can be
presented and shot down, but the dialogue needs to begin somewhere. In the
end, it will be the strength of the values that the rave scene supports that
will decide its fate, and not its leaders- so we shouldn't worry too much
about one individual grabbing control of the thing. As long as dialogue is
maintained, truth will continue to emerge and be the driving force.

There are various mindsets in the rave community that are preventing it from
developing into an actual movement. One of these mindsets is a fear of
hierarchy that makes those who try to step forward subject to ridicule.
Ravers want equality, and fear that any semblence of hierarchy will destroy
this equality. The truth is that people in the rave scene attain whatever
acclaim they have from their merits, and any leaders will thrive or fail on
their merits. Another mindset that prevents any clear consensus from
emerging is the fear of calling something wrong. The rave scene is
interested in being open and accepting, as it should be, but the mindset is
taken to the extreme of accepting behavior that is detrimental to the scene
overall. For example, abuse of crystal methamphetamines and alcohol. It's
easy to condem crack addiction, but it is difficult to condem speed
addiction when your friends are the addicts. Fear of religion is another
crippling mindset, limiting any discussion of spirituality beyond
superficial slogans, but who hasn't walked with God on the dance floor?

The novelty and initial adventure of the rave scene is gone, and unless we
define ourselves in a more specific way we will not continue to grow. Any
organism that stops growing starts to die. People who complain that raves
are not what they used to be are right. It is time to move on to the next

The rave scene is currently an excellent marketplace for music and fashion,
and good music and new fashions emerge quickly. What we need to do is make
it a marketplace for ideas- political, social, and spiritual.



house.34.280: jonl (jonl) Wed 5 Oct 94 21:35

John Witham and I were talking about doing a candlelight rave...

house.34.281: time bandit caught in a cage (cubensis) Wed 5 Oct 94 21:47

meaning the "death of rave"
or a vigil for it's growing pains
or what?

(P.S. nice to see you Jon. I'm a huge fan.)

house.34.282: jonl (jonl) Wed 5 Oct 94 22:16

thanx! thru our alpha characters ye shall know us! :-)


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