Reluctant Brutus / Ant In The Ice Cream

house.54.728: psychic cliff notes for sale (cubensis) Tue 9 May 95 20:31

hey! I finally got my shit together, and launched my Home Page:

BTW, fraser, bout time for those one-year anniversaries to be rollin'

house.54.729: psychic cliff notes for FREE (cubensis) Sun 14 May 95 06:05


It's very early here at 8000 feet, especially considering I've been up all
night raving in Denver. During the glorious sunrise through the peaks, as I
drove home, I thought a lot about the state of the "scene" in the Mountain
Raves/Colorado region. I had a chance to visit with lots of folks I first
met when the Pronoia Tour was in Boulder/Denver. We talked. A lot.

What I am getting at is this: I'd like to propose that the wonderful minds
that gather in this conference do a brainstorm session/debate:

RESOLVED: Gangsta drug-cartels and the machismo that accompany such
"posses" are inherently distructive to the "rave scene" in urban areas, and
The Love Ravers (who outnumber the Gansta Ravers BY FAR) have the
responsibility to themselves and future ravers/zippies to propose some
solutions (political? financial? spiritual? conspiratorial?) and healing of
this ever-widening intrusion into what began as attitude-free TAZs.

} I'm part of something. I'm part of something that's actually bigger than
} myself. I'm one of the people, these are my people, this is US

These words Fraser posted ring clear to me-- (you know I still think you're
a hell of a soundbite-composer, Fraser and I love ya for it!)--

Does anybody have any REAL, REAL-istic, and inspired ideas regarding this?
I saw it done firsthand in San Fran, at the Zippy Jupiter Bash, when some
Boyz became threatening and mean when they got the idea somebody was "dissin
their turf", and we sat down with them and COMMUNICATED, shared some clear
cool water from the same bottle, and made peace. It can be done on a block-
by-block scale, but how about an overall strategy?!?

(BTW, _Babylon_ was a lot of fun, and as usual, Dimitri rocked the house.)

house.54.730: Knowledge (aasgaard) Sun 14 May 95 21:01
{scribbled by aasgaard Mon 15 May 95 16:52}

house.54.731: psychic cliff notes for FREE (cubensis) Mon 15 May 95 06:22

} you can't even getalong with rappers?

Did I say "can't get along with rappers"? I don't thinks so.. I said
gangstas-- and gave an example of one night of "getting along".

Raving on crack is not raving, in my humble opionion. There are some very
positive, healthy, and non-violent/non-sexist hip-hop artists in the world,
and I think they would be insulted if they knew you were lumping "all them
rappers" together as crackhead gangstas.

house.54.732: strange cargo (reid) Mon 15 May 95 06:29

Now, don't go around stereotyping and scapegoating people. The use of the
word rappper in the above post reminds me of how some people use the word

'Hey hacker, give anyone the plans to blow up any federal buildings today?'

Besides, I thought the evil drug of choice was crystal meth?

house.54.733: strange cargo (reid) Mon 15 May 95 06:35

cubensis slipped and addressed the problem justly.

house.54.734: spice trader (reid) Mon 15 May 95 06:41

TiReD: drug cartels
WiReD: drum cartels

The full moon jam was a blast last night. The moon was big over the Potomac
highlands. Spring is here and does it feel goood? It sure does!

house.54.735: David Dei (megatrip) Mon 15 May 95 19:27

I think part of the solution lies in networking a "planetary crew" for
the blue sphere. basic goal would be to throw a birthday bash for the
bi-millennium. Anyone up for this? Would mean we do practice runs of
global harmony and peace outbreaks, until we have it down perfectly. That
way humanity gets to enter the galactic age with time to spare, I would
hate to have to pass some kind of extraterrestrial trial unprepared.

- david dei

house.54.736: psychic cliff notes for FREE (cubensis) Mon 15 May 95 19:46

ya. and trials are best undergone unarmed, except for rapier wit and killer
tunes. but the questiobn remains, under the zippy-dippy rhetoric (which I
am totally guilty of, too) there is a culture gap between "milita"-type
tribes (both urban ghetto and white paramilitaries) and the tribes of Peace:

ravers, rainbows, crusties, (some) rastafarian-types, deadheads, etc...

where lies the ground for bridge-building? I'd like those "practice runs of
global harmony and peace outbreaks" to be a deliciously diverse gumbo...

house.54.737: David Dei (megatrip) Wed 17 May 95 13:12

I invision an organisation sans frontiers complimenting already existing
inititives with amazingly visionary symbolic and practical exercises of
networking connection and connectors. - A planetary crew navigating earth
into the new renaissance, a new millenium enlightenment using the best
technological and cultural strands.

I hereby invite all like-minded individuals of vision to an informal
metting in SF to discuss the Planetary Crew idea.
Date: this coming tuesday, 6pm, 996 Valencia Street, apt 7.
Tel: 415:826-9382

David Dei.

house.54.738: David Dei (megatrip) Sat 20 May 95 02:37

Rave review of fraser's recent Stanford Uni speech in Stanford Campus
RePort. will post it soon.

house.54.739: warm butter knife (cubensis) Sat 20 May 95 08:31

That's good news, really it is-- but I would really like to continue the
discussion over gangs and raves, which is VERY REAL and HERE and NOW.

I am getting sick of Fraserspeak, to be honest, without any REAL solutions
to problems included. I'm the first person recognize the value of a well-
placed soundbite (and lord knows, I've engaged in the practice same as
fraser tho not as eloquent) and having those Stanford folks hear that well-
polished rap of Fraser's is a GOOD thing... but let's stop promoting one
man's ego and start promoting group activity aimed towards CONCRETE action.

I welcome Fraser as one of that group, even as an elder in that group, but


The talented and skilled humans you gather around you are usually seduced by
your charm, but all of them (in my experience) finally, at some point or
another, come to the realization that self-promotion can be used as an
excuse for activism for only so long.

If that sound like BS to anyone reading this, I invite them to go back to
the beginning of the original Zippies topic, where I began promoting
Fraserspeak with all my enthusiasm. As you keep reading, the evidence for
my change of perpsective all but screams at you time and time again.

RU Sirius called Fraser a "Re-Makeable Man"... I'd like to see you evolve,
Fraser, not remade by negative feedback.

Ok... that's all I wanted to say about that.

house.54.740: give the DJ a break! (miga) Sat 20 May 95 11:57

nice post, cubensis. gangs and raves is an interesting and difficult issue,
one I think is deserving of it's own topic, so I'll go start one.

house.54.741: give the DJ a break! (miga) Sat 20 May 95 12:00

the topic on gangs and the rave scene is house 65, please come post.

house.54.742: Bruce Sterling (bruces) Sat 20 May 95 19:38

Well, far be it from me and everything, but I'm pretty sure that Fraser
is, in point of fact, the Moon.

house.54.743: David Dei (megatrip) Sun 21 May 95 00:18

I'm speechless. I'm also about to disappear for a moon or so - next
public event is June 24th (UN Anniversary Weekend) at Fort Mason, San Fran
when the Parallel University, in conjunction with the Unity Foundation, a
UN NGO, initiates a Cyberlab Safari to Africa, video-internet-livelinking
a Master Drummer, an Oxford educated witchdoctor and others with
cyberknots in California. as well as dancing the sun up in SA from SF!

so that's what tecno-pagan is all about. the yogi no longer needs to
leave his cave and his meditation - the mountain is coming to Mohammed
thru a modem. "take us in, baba, we're messing up bad out here! we're
sorry we said you wuz crazy and arrogant."

me, I'm nearing the end of my Trials, (here in babylon) where, according
to my I Ching throw for this year, I have closely enough approached the
Great Beast to have been injured, but am now slowly emerging over the rest
of the year into the brightness again. the Ching even advises me it's no
dishonour to accept tha5t the beast is uncahngeable but of course I'll
never settle for that.

To hell with it, I'll give you the two quotes:

"We find ourselves close to the commander of darkness and so discover his
most secret thoughts. In this way we realise thast there is no longer
any hope of improvement, and thus we are enabled to leave the scene of
disaster before the strorm breaks." (is america starting to rip itself
apart - does cubensis vomit as much spleen on all the really bad folks as
on the only allies he's found this far?)

But here's the possible break in the clouds for the forecast brightnbess
ahead: "Here the climax of the darkness is reached. The dark power at
first held so high a place that it could wound all who were on the side
of good and of the light. But in the end it perishes of its own darkness,
for evil must itself fall at the very moment when it has wholly overcome
the good, and thus consumed the energy to which it owed its duration."

and I'm sitting on the Moon with bruce (neither of us *being* the moon)
watching jon on earth giving me the finger.

what does it all mean? RUStafari, hold my hand, sometimes I think only
you and the ant in my icecream know


PS don't forget to write.

house.54.744: e tu cubey? (reid) Sun 21 May 95 12:13

Is the World Unity Conference on for the summer? Have you folks thought oif
a spot that can support the crowd?

BTW the Great Blue Heron Music Festival, June 30/July 1&2 in Sherman NY
should be a good time for all of those that attend. Bring camping gear and
$ to buy percussive engines!

Where is the Annual Rainbow gathering this year?

house.54.745: harmonious spleen (cubensis) Sun 21 May 95 14:16

Now *I* am speechless. Truely I wish your injuries healed, Fraser.

house.54.746: David Dei (megatrip) Sun 21 May 95 19:30

the annual rainbow gathering this year is near taos new mexico culminating
on July 4th with day of meditation. the annual zippy rainbow gatherave
kicks off then. see you all there? it also looks very likely there will
be another festi-rave the following weekend also in taos, inspired, they
e-mail me, by the zippy mega rave last year and organised in the neaarby
area. they've aked us to get involved. anyway stay tuned as you make yer
plans. }:-) fraser

house.54.747: spice trader (reid) Mon 22 May 95 06:27

k001! The Southwest is starting to pop! The Percussion Arts Society is
having their annual event in Phoenix AZ, November 1-4 at the Hyatt Regency
Hotel. They've got a little Southwestern looking (Anasazi, Mimbres?) Native
American pictogram of a guy playing the drums, soHopefully this year their
will be ore of an emphisis on hand drumming.

email me for more information if interested.

house.54.748: reluctant brutus (cubensis) Sat 27 May 95 21:47

And me, noble Ceaser.

Am I the only one who's permission was not sought before the megatripolis
web site put the entire WELL Zippy topic archive up as their "own"?

Does it make me "venomous" if I once again point out a fundamental lack of
respect and a willingness to use others' energies for selfish gain as a

house.54.749: RUSirius (rusirius) Sun 28 May 95 11:27

i see it as the sort of natural and spontaneous act that ought to be able to
occur without thinking twice...

house.54.750: reluctant brutus (cubensis) Sun 28 May 95 15:18

} without thinking twice

But this is my point. I'm ALL FOR putting this great topic out there for
everyone to enjoy, in fact, I have composed a letter to send to everyone who
has ever posted-- a letter I was waiting to send until I had finished
building a website of my own-- and I was planning on offering the topic
(minus the posts of those who did not want their words posted outside the

It only needs to be in one place, but the difference is I was following the
WELL ettiquite and proper channels of respect. If ONE person responds "No
don't put my words out there" to my query, then I'll edit accordingly and
put the topic up on my site. If nobody really carses, and is "natural and
spontaneous" as rusirius about it all, then I see no reason to just link to
Megatrip's archive of the topic.

But the bottom line continues to be: RESPECT for others' energies

Fraser bitches the "young idiots" who did his Pronoia Tour gruntwork for him
did not understand/respect the ingrained investement and stature of HIM.

We/I bitch that Fraser does not understand/respect the energies of ANYONE
but himself... and this latest action is yet another glaring example.

SHIT, I hate having to be the "bad guy", you know-- I feel pigeon-holed into
pointing out this Bull Shit, in order to get past it to a vibe of group
cooperation... but there is this EGO ROADBLOCK with a goatee in the way.

Call it working-class hero-complex if you will, but someone has to stand up
for principles like RESPECT and COMMUNITY CODES, such as:

You own your own words. This means that you are responsible
for the words that you post on the WELL and that reproduction of those
words without your permission in any medium outside of the WELL's
conferencing system may be challenged by you, the author.

Look familiar?

house.54.751: reluctant brutus (cubensis) Sun 28 May 95 18:18

I've received a request to not use someone's words outside the WELL.
Therefore, linking to the Megatripolis site would be unethical, IMHO.

So, I'll offer an archive of the Topic as well, with people's wishes
respected and their posts replaced with: PRIVACY OF {user} REQUESTED

house.54.752: Knowledge (aasgaard) Sun 28 May 95 18:20


house.54.753: reluctant (cubensis) Sun 28 May 95 22:07

My site, the PRONOIA PAGE

will be completely UNCOMMERCIAL. That's right, it's outa my own pocket,
like much of the 1994 Tour was. (Or rather, outa my own future income, as I
was/am/and will be for a while in debt like a mo fo...).

The bucks-for-zippy game was stupid from the beginning, and I admit it.

house.54.754: becoming less reluctant (cubensis) Sun 28 May 95 23:48

And for the record, Fraser and David, the Are You A Zippy portion of your
website contains my paraphrased/edited for grammer interview with Fraser
from before the tour, and also many of my own original words, as well as
those of Mark Heley's. Were you just going to push and push until someone
gets so fed up with your disrespect that they cause you problems?

I will not cause you problems-- I am too pronoid for that, and I'm trying to
be above pettiness. You guys really are unbelieveable, tho.

All I can do is assume that since you feel no need to ask my permission to
use my energies, I can just go ahead and run OCR on all these Encyclopeadia
Pychedelicas I have here in my hand and put them on my site...

Of course I would not do that... but do you GET MY POINT YET?

house.54.755: David ~Dei (megatrip) Mon 29 May 95 00:58

Cubensis, you of all people should know the difference between paranoia
and pronoia, might I suggest that your continual snapping at our zippy
boots is sign of a strange fixation with the bottom line of your cosmic
bank account, which seems to swing forever between the red lines of forgotten
credit and black ink of misrepresented intention.Or perhaps you are merely
frustrated with our lack of enthusiasm lately for this topic, which seems
to have run its course and I for one have a planet to fix - if that is what
we are doing then lets do it, otherwise forever hold your binaries in the
cybervoid of psychicspace.

David Dei

house.54.756: Knowledge (aasgaard) Mon 29 May 95 08:38


house.54.757: Jim Cyr (surfpunk) Mon 29 May 95 08:48

" onward christian soldiers, marching as to war! "

truly, the technical skills, means of navigation, etc. etc. . . .
are evolving at such a pace as i can barely keep up with the ethical dilemas
however, in this particular case . . .

as noted above, if profits are being sought to include my sputterings
without my permission is unconscionable
i also trust we navigate here with an implicit understanding that we will
abide by the code of ethics posted at the gateway

house.54.758: let it shine! let it shine! (cubensis) Mon 29 May 95 08:54

I find it interesting you have not responded to any of the issues raised.

My lovelight is shining quite clearly, Mr. Dei. My frustrations are clearly
articulated in the above several posts, and my "continual snapping" is a
stimulus-response mechanism caused by your and Fraser's repeated acts of
unbelieveable unconciousness.

As I have said before, I find YOU to be a much more aware and functional
"planet-saver" than your current associates in "pronoia".

I am disappointed there in a lull in the conversation-- a conversation which
you added a lot to. But may I remind you this topic has had growth-spurts
and lulls for nine months before you ever got your WELL account, and it
reeks of meglomania to assume it will dissolve merely due to you and Fraser
tucking tail. It very well may, but pop your head out of that charismatic
fishbowl long enough to see I am but the latest (and gentlest) "snapper" at
a pair of ego-filled boots.

I am very pronoid, sirs. But not to the point of letting myself get stomped
on by personal agendas. First time=fool Second time=fucking idiot.

I may be a pronoid fool, but I am NOT a fucking idiot.

As long a hypocritical binaries float by, I'll share my planet-fixing
energies in order to point them out. The enemy is US, David.

house.54.759: let it shine! let it shine! (cubensis) Mon 29 May 95 08:56

{surfpunk} slipped in.

house.54.760: Dan Levy (danlevy) Mon 29 May 95 17:51

I received welcome e-mail from {cubensis} today asking for permission to
use my words in this topic in his website.

I would alert all of you, however, that his mail says that he will not use
the words of anyone who does not want them to appear, and will assume that
anyone who does not respond is agreeing to the use of their words.

This is a direct violation of long-time Well protocol, and while more
courteous than Frasier's usurpation of the postings here, no more kosher.

John (cubensis), before it gets nasty, I suggest you change your policy and
state so in this topic.

house.54.761: let it shine! let it shine! (cubensis) Mon 29 May 95 21:07

Done, and thanks.

house.54.762: David ~Dei (megatrip) Mon 29 May 95 21:09

question is what stage do we move from this paranoia and
squabbling, into concrete action? Cubensis, no one is ripping you off,
and it seems that if anything is being lost, it is your own trust in your
fellow human. There is more than enough room for any number of Pronoia
Web Sites, so I would'nt be so damn quick on the draw in some strange
version of the zippy wars. come on, get off your high donkey and roll in
the hay a while. It's summer, the kids are restless, and I for one, want
to party. In fact, why not join me on an earth cruise. blast off venues
thus far are San Francisc, Cape Town and Honolulu.

house.54.763: let it shine! let it shine! (cubensis) Mon 29 May 95 21:37

I'd LOVE NOTHING BETTER than to get off this damn donkey, but right now I'd
step in a pile of ....

It's not about TRUST, David. It's about RESPECT.

house.54.764: David ~Dei (megatrip) Mon 29 May 95 22:04

so then why not R-E-S-P-E-C-T yourself? Its all you've got to go on. The
rest is just code.

house.54.765: Larry Edelstein (ledelste) Tue 30 May 95 00:56

Nah, this is shit.

Shit shit shit. David, you have sometimes attempted to purvey actual data
and explain your view of world developments. I would have liked to hear
more from you. My view of Fraser is that he is a very charismatic,
personable, good-hearted individual with a strong streak of millenialism
and no interest in critical discussion.

Nothing Fraser has said ever struck me as true in a significant way. The
Crazier Lark has never engaged in the kind of hardcore intellectualism
that I expect in debate here on the WeLL. I feel rotten saying all this
since I have broken bread (or something) with Fraser and enjoyed my time,
but I must speak my mind.

Further, I haven't seen the Megatripolis site, but if my posts, gleaned
from the WeLL, are contained there, I insist that you remove them
immediately, as I have given no permission to you for their use.


The Zippy Pronoia Tour site was developed by © 1995.
Extra special thanks to the gracious, skoochin' internet love-fest.