From Now On, Only Whaling Songs

house.54.316: Robert Lauriston (duck) Thu 26 Jan 95 11:12

Apt that Fraser would quote Leary to defend his Peter Pan lifestyle.
And ludicrous that someone so ready with a negative comment about
anything outside of his tunnel-vision view should complain that
someone else is too negative.

I'm a congenital iconoclast, and this topic is a rich mine of human
illusion. So long as you're stuck in the mud, you aren't going
anywhere, and pompous claims about changing the world are just a
waste of good ASCII. If you really had any interest in growing,
you'd take the time to understand what I'm saying instead of just
dismissing it with a handy stereotype.

"Il n'y aura jamais qu'une seule revolution--celle que les enfants
portent dans leur tete."--Jean-Michell Jarre

house.54.317: Jonathan E. (jeve) Thu 26 Jan 95 12:30

Yes, but if we lose our illusions what have we left? (Somebody else said
this first - but I forget who.)

And you know, for some people, Peter Pan is a fine role model.

But despite my sympathies for RC, much of it is aesthetically unpleasing -
and as soon as it presents itself as the only answer, it loses whatever
power it might have had. The challenge of our times is coexistence, not
domination. (And, yes, I'm a total idealist, disillusioned as I am with
human nature - we must embrace the paradoxes and reject the dichotomies, let
love grow in your heart, say something nice just for practice.)

house.54.318: RUSirius (rusirius) Thu 26 Jan 95 12:48

all i kn ow is that last night i thoroughly enjoyed that Flaming Lips video
on MTV and right now I'm ejoying Freak Show by the Residents. Hardly rock
stars but not politically correct according to zippie ideology... and who
cares? People trying to tell you waht you should like suck...

house.54.319: Robert Lauriston (duck) Thu 26 Jan 95 12:59


From now on, only whaling songs.

house.54.320: Bubblegum Crisis (aleonard) Thu 26 Jan 95 13:43

It's long past time for this topic to be linked to Weird.

house.54.321: C J Silverio (ceej) Thu 26 Jan 95 14:10


house.54.322: David Dei (megatrip) Thu 26 Jan 95 14:22

which is why I've been trying to draw a distinction between balladic
music (high oral quotient, based in folk and including most rocknroll)
and shamanic music (low oral quotient, emphasis on rythmn, inludes most
rave music)

The important point is not the "what" but the "how" - The balladic oral
tradition of communication is an exceptionally long one reaching right
back to the first hunt and the first tale. I wouldn't want to live in
world that had lost its language, its ability to speak, it ability for
poetry. But let us not forget the setting of these balladic forms.
Usually AFTER the hunt, at the END of the JOURNEY, at the FEAST, and so on.

And in a perfect world, we would feast and rest for eternity. Listening
to each individuals tale of daring, transformation, drama, the list of
who did what when and how. Very good.

BUT there comes a time in every culture when the feast is interupted,
when the food runs out, when there is drought or danger at hand. and then
it is time to bring out the SHAMANIC music - to access vision. And after
the communal vision is agreed upon - and the advice of the sages and
seers has been sought, and it has become totally clear to the entire
tribe or culture that they are threatened then the WAR DANCE is brought out.
And for most cultures in touch with the life-force, this dance was a
serious affair. No time for tales. This was a serious non-stop drumming
in which many would fall into spontaneous trance. And the battle was not
fought in what we know as war, but in a psyche-space, a beyond time place.

There are those who believe that a war dance needs anger as its root.
This may be so, and we could argue for punk being an interim music form
between the songs of the sixties and the non-stop drumming of the
nineties. But it is also clear, that anger is not the only componant,
that we need to also love from our position of anger - a self-rightious
anger is really the immense feeling of motivation to solve a problem, to
overcome an obstacle that is SERIOUSLY THREATENING YOUR TRIBE.

I am reminded of the Toyi Toyi three step dance performed by the crowd at
political rallies in South Africa. Not the uncontrolled head-banging of
frustration, but the controlled almost lighthearted anger of motivation
to overcome. And we would sing something simple, it would go on for
hours, the rythmn getting stronger as you danced harder, while smiling,
and singing "Panzi Botha, Panzi Botha" which roughly translated means
Down/Death to President Botha.

And you would dance up to the police pointing their guns, smiling and
dancing a war song.

Now there are many who will argue otherwise, but I do believe that one of
the fundemental strengths of being human is our capacity to use metaphor,
or to those who are not squeamish with third world matters - MAGIC.
So while you perform this ritual act of defience, over a number of years,
not a single new age DIY, but serious and considered effort, you begin to
effect change. To put it another way. The kids on the other side of the
barbed wire, or on the other side of the wall, begin to lose their nerve.
And no amount of therapy is going to rid a colonial mama of the sneaking
suspicion that the rest of the world hates her. Not the unconsidered wish
to do harm, but the forceful wish to change her for the better.

If there ever was a time in the earths history that we needed to dance,
and trance and drum up the war music, it is now. My WELL Friends. YOu are
living in a country under curfew, under siege, in which a once beautiful
constitution granted you freedom. YOur BILL OF RIGHTS is not worth the
paper it is written on, if you have no wish to defend yourself.

John Perry Barlow quoted a lawyer on the Fouth Amendment "I think if you
take a look at case law for the last ten years or so, you will find that
the Fourth Amendent has pretty much gone away"


There is no time for business as usual in a dismal period such as this
one where Gingrich represents but the tip of an iceberg of hatred and
lack of basic humanity.

Over 50% of all american prison inmates are BLACK. ANd this country has
more people incarcerated than ANY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD and that includes
Iraq and Iran.

SO do we get to dance together or do they take us out one by one?
Imagine, each one of us in our very own virtual prison, AND WE EVEN HELP
THE AUTHORITIES OUT by paying for it, in fact we might as well hand
ourselves in to the nearest police station, at least we would rid
ourselves of the dishonesty of PRETENDING that everything is OK.

It stinks, and I honestly do not see any other social movement even
tackling issues of raising the resistance. Sure there are a few rocknroll
poets SO WHAT. Cynicism comes cheap, its the "how" not the "what" that
we're tackling right here.

house.54.323: David Dei (megatrip) Thu 26 Jan 95 14:26

A quote from the latest ZLR8R magazine:

"What's great is the JUNGLE SCENE changes week by week. There's a new
sound week by week. Its brilliant. Everything else seems stuck in a rut..."
Dan Donnelly on JUNGLE a form of breakbeat/reggae/rave

house.54.324: Robert Lauriston (duck) Thu 26 Jan 95 15:53


Evidence of what? That you have a write-only memory?

house.54.325: David Dei (megatrip) Thu 26 Jan 95 16:22

WOnderful posting, David. Absolutely wonderful. You've made the issue
crystal clear. Let's have some serious, intelligent repsonses.

As for Stuck, J'ACCUSE! I am beginning to be convinced that he IS
working for the authorities as a spoiler. It;s very easy for them to
watch us from their towers and just throuw in the odd mess-up whenever
anyone looks like there's a community of agreement and cooperation
coalescing around them. Have you noticed how he alwazys is there to jump
in whenever something moving or positive appears. Most of us don't have
that much time so, by the time we get on, THERE HE IS putting it down,
"spoiling" it.


house.54.326: David Gault (dgault) Thu 26 Jan 95 17:08


house.54.327: Bubblegum Crisis (aleonard) Thu 26 Jan 95 18:05

I can't believe they figured it out. better get a new userid, duck.

house.54.328: Larry Edelstein (ledelste) Thu 26 Jan 95 21:15

{megatrip}-dd, I was interested by what you said about war chants and
ballads and such. I'll also remind you that the solo-balladier form you
speak of is also used to inspire warriors before battle. In fact I'd say
that is the form of pre-battle musical inspiration that most people would
think of if you asked them.

But the rest of your post is this same old crap again. Yes, we know the
world is in trouble. Yes, we know it is in trouble. Oh, yes, actually,
WE KNOW THE WORLD IS IN TROUBLE! Spare us your histrionics, please. You
don't need them here. At least, we only need them once. You keep
repeating them.

{megatrip}-fc, you didn't respond where I said you had to in #315. I had
hoped that since I was proving you uncategorically wrong in that
paragraph, you would respond. Please go ahead!

house.54.329: Find your Inner Barney (rik) Thu 26 Jan 95 21:38

"I wish we'd stop talking about "musicians", which is basically a leftover
from the Rock'nRoll era. What's much more exciting and important is that
Rave returns music to the people themselves. NO MORE STARS (look what
happened last time!) ain't just a slogan."

This is a classic example of how Fraser's lack of awareness of human nature.
I hate to say it friends, but humans NEED heirarchy. they always find a
way to sort themselves into a pyramid. If reading basic psychology is to
much of a chore, try Golding's "Lord of the Flies" Every attempt at
egalitarianism in history has failed, and if you want to break the cycle,
you'd better figure out why. Your tendency to blame "the System" is all
just hand-waving. THERE IS NO SYSTEM! There are just people jockeying for
power and position like all primates.

My first encounter with the "there are no stars" movement was when I was
into what we used to call folk music in the '60's The idea was old even
then, but as young as I was, I could still hear the irony in someone like
Pete Seeger, who could fill the Hollywood Bowl, talking about ending the
star system. It didn't happen then, and it won't happen now. People need
stars. They like the star system. And they like having leaders.

The problems arise when the leaders get addicted to the perks. Fraser loves
being a leader. He loves having people pay attention to him, and even
though I'm sure he wants his revolution, when it doesn't happen, he'll
remain attached to the attention. Even now he's using a time-honored bit of
demogoguery by demonizing duck, who is busting him, point by point. Fraser
has already started down the slippery slope.

house.54.330: Jim Cyr (surfpunk) Thu 26 Jan 95 22:15

recommended reading for all concerned . . .

Reality Isn't What It Used To Be by Walter Truett Anderson (HarperSF)

oh, and by the way from primal chant in ethnogenerational ceremony to
Joni to Reba to Bessie to Zepplin to Butthole Surfers to ambient to
gabberhouse - its all given me an orgastic ruch on repeated occasions
i stalk an understanding and heart-felt appreciation for an ever expanding
"sea of possibility" - p. smith

house.54.331: David Dei (megatrip) Thu 26 Jan 95 23:01

"point for point" come on, ducks postings have'nt been longer than a
couple of lines or two.

Anyway, found this on Alt.Rave
"Great moments in Rave"
In {3flv1a$s@klaava.Helsinki.FI} ppennane@cc.Helsinki.FI
(Petrus Pennanen) writes:

}Last spring there was a free party with Goa music in a forest a bit
}outside Helsinki. These parties and their organizers are brilliant, it's
}completely free, people bring food, drinks and other nice things to share
}with everyone, decoration and music are very beautiful and emphasis is
}on trance, like usually there's a colorful totem in the middle of the
}floor and everyone dances around it. This is great because everyone looks
at }each other while dancing. } }At this party they had a four-way sound
and lights which looked amazing in }the dark forest. At some point the
police arrived -- no permit, too much }noise, stop the party! Everyone got
a bit paranoid, the music was turned down }and the cops went away. The
music was turned up again and the cops came back }to shut it down for
real. This time one of the girls serving tea&cookies got }up, went to the
cops carrying a tray and asked them to sit down and have some }tea and
cake. Something a cop can't resist I guess. The cops sat there with
}everyone else and had a chat with the organizers. Then they got up, went
}to their van and drove through the dancefloor -- with all the }flashing
lights on! There was a BIG cheer and the party went on till 8 }or 9. I had
a blast and was dancing till the very end, the mosquitoes }didn't bother
me when I danced. } }There are plenty of magic rave moments bouncing
around in my head, it's }gonna be a long thread I guess. } }Much love, }
}Petrus }-- } * Everything is perfect forever

house.54.332: climbing the learning curve (reid) Thu 26 Jan 95 23:57


house.54.333: Robert Lauriston (duck) Fri 27 Jan 95 10:21

I've said nothing against youth culture, to the contrary I'm very much
in favor of each generation of kids being alright in their own particular
way. Getting high and dancing all night is a wonderful thing, and if the
young imagine that the revolutionary side effects will spread anyplace
beyond their own minds and circle of friends, well, naivete is no sin
when you're inexperienced.

I just don't like to see assholes like Fraser and Tim Leary take
advantage of that naivete for their own purposes, surfing the standing
wave of youth culture and telling the kids it's going somewhere.

house.54.334: pronoid dance-o-phrenic (cubensis) Fri 27 Jan 95 11:27

whew! This puppy's movin' quick. I have established local access, and am
please to be with you again on a daily basis.

} Come back, Cubensis. Both Ray and David tell me I was too hard on you -
} so I take it all back. OK?

the collision waiver from your accident was $100, pal.


seriously, I'd like to hit off your proposed peace pipe, 'cause it only
makes sense. That doesn't mean I agree with you more than 60% of the time
or so, but it does mean I don't hold grudges. I am a stubborn SOB when it
comes to hypocrisy, tho.

RE: post # 322: David, I don't know if I've told you this yet, but it's a
pleasure to read your stuff.

RE: post # 325: Fraser! ack! Spoilers only make the brew more potent.
Only sand can produce a pearl, so to speak... and please don't stray too
far from that pleasant pronoid personality...

house.54.335: Jonathan E. (jeve) Fri 27 Jan 95 12:20

Another work of basic psychology to consider: Animal Farm.

So perhaps Animal Farm and Lord of the Flies are just the work of moldy old
Brits suffering from full-scale disillusionment - but has anybody got
suggestions about literature that proposes the opposite point of view, that
humans are loving, warm creatures who if only given the chance will live in
peace and harmony without hierarchy?

house.54.336: RUSirius (rusirius) Fri 27 Jan 95 12:41

whatever his faults, Leary has always encouraged people to think for
themselves, to not follow leaders or factions, and to take their
megalomaniac acid trips with a grain of salt...

If there's a better future, it'll be pluralistic or in fact multiplex and in
some ways very much like things are now. cowboys 'll still listen to
country music, young black kids will still like hip hop or its equivalent,
there'll still be some heros, stars, gurus around even though lots of people
won't need them. We'll still have our Madonnas etc. If everybody was a
hippie, it would be BORING...

house.54.337: David Dei (megatrip) Fri 27 Jan 95 13:13

except the Drama will be on an entirely new level. Like how we solve the
problem of having more than one Madonna after nanotech body-modification
gets into the fashion biz. And then we might all be desperately saving
another civilization from itself and figuring out if its ethical or not a
la Star Trek. Sure there'll be cowboys and cowmusic. But like I said, all
this stuff is for the end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it party-time. The
great balladic post-Illiad journey when its good to listen to Homeric
lyrics and even white-noise-fractal-chaos-industrial-point-of-view.

But we have this little matter of global threat to the species thing to
solve first. Which is basically a battle over whether or not we take the
warm-emotional-humanist thing with us as we head into the future or
whether we ditch it for the cold cooperation of a captalist complex that
is right now pruning the genetic diversity of the human species. First it
will be just plain post-OJ DNA testing (yep the OJ thing is a
high-profile DNA drama), then its "lets register baby DNA at birth" like
those social security numbers are'nt good enough. Then we do a post human
genome prject excising of those malignant genes, WE ALL KNOW THE ONES -
those gay genes, jewish genes, rebellious "criminal" genes and so on
until Humans resemble nothing like we know today.

RUS - you're a great one for proclaiming the beginning of the
post-scarcity economy, but then what? I don't see the Republicans or the
POPE talking about the implications, and I don't see how a supply/demand
economy will continue to work. All I see is the freezing of capital at
the top of the pyramid with very little trickle down so much so that

AND we can all take a guess as to HOW MANY poor there'll be by 2000ad/
if the entire world looked like america at this point in history, I might
give this economy a chance. But most of the planet is way below what you
guys know as poor! And some countries are even de-evolving - getting less


house.54.338: pronoid dance-o-phrenic (cubensis) Fri 27 Jan 95 16:48

all pigs are equal, but some pigs are more equal than others

-animal farm

Cops are cops. There are only divisions of rank- into greater and lesser.
The top cop is probably never seen.
-Philip K. Dick "Radio Free Ablemuth"

house.54.339: Jim Rutt (jimrutt) Fri 27 Jan 95 17:10

today's pig is tommorrow's bacon.

house.54.340: RUSirius (rusirius) Fri 27 Jan 95 17:13

"they're like humans and they understand"
Simone 3rd Arm

house.54.341: Let the love shine on (megatrip) Fri 27 Jan 95 17:36

Forwared from the "Spirit of Raving" Web site humor directory at

Date: Fri, 16 Dec 1994 09:29:46 -0800
From: (Geoff White)
Subject: Luv Phasers on Full


"Captain, it's the strangest thing! The Borg suddenly are ceasing
all hostilities!"

"Lieutenant Worf, Your analysis please."

"Captain I believe it is a subtle trick on their part"

"No Worf, I sense some strange emanations coming from that small
class M planet in the adjacent system, Data wasn't that planet
settled by a combined betazoid/humanoid contingent about a century ago?"

"Yes counselor you are correct, the "houseNation Posse" as they, at one
time refered to themselves by, were a renegade group of anarchistic
individuals who were completely devoted to a "unique form of music" which
surfaced on earth in the late 20th early 21 century. They assign great
value to this music, almost religeous significance. And are completely
dedicated to living in and spreading what they refer to as "The Vibe""

"Vibe? What is this Vibe?"

"Allow me to explain, During the late 20th century on Earth, a type of
"millenial feaver" began to surface as the calender approached the year 2001.
A strange phenomena of all night dance parties, often fueled by psychoactive
drugs swept across the industrialized countries of the time."

"Yes! I remember now! These ecstasy cults spawned some of the most
innovative artist and scientist that Earth ever knew!"

"That is correct counselor, about a century ago a group of young people
from your planet teamed up with another large group from Earth, together
they formed the houseNation, they inhabited this small planet, and since
then have been joined by people from many different races and cultures.
There major export is Music, Art and amazing Cybernetic Technology, to
our best knowledge, they have absolutely no forms of sophisticated

"Yet the Borg seem immobilized, what could cause that"

"Yes... I'm getting it now, wait Geordie, can you patch the bridge into
these hailing frequencies..."

"What the devil is that!"

"That Captain, is house Music, in fact I believe it is the part of the
subgenre labeled "Acid house".

"But how can simply beaming a strange form of music immobilize the Borg?"

"You see, Worf it's not just the music, it's this energy that they refer to
as the Vibe, when the betazoids and earthlings interbred, they created a
new race that had exceptional psychic powers, not only were they telepathic
but they figured out how to amplify telepathic thought and even emotions
and transmit them over long interstellar distances"

"You mean mind control! Turn this music off at once!"

"Wait Worf, not exactly, you see the houseNation has a doctrine of
nonviolence, their demigods are historic individuals like Earth's
Ghandi and Martin Luther King, and Beta's Zenna, they don't seek to
control other cultures, but they do believe in the concept of Aggape or
unconditional love, apparently they are hitting the Borg with their
"secret weapon" a Luv Phaser.

"Luv Phaser?"

"Yes, they have managed to build a device that can amplify and send
emotions out that are so powerful that they have a direct effect on
the life forms that the beams come in contact with."

"But, but the Borg are a cruel heartless race totally incapable of such

"Well Worf, judging from the effect that this Luv Phaser is having
on that Borg ship, it seems that you are mistaken"

[thanks to lee fogel for alerting me]

house.54.342: turn on your love-light! let it shine! let it shine! (cubensis) Fri 27 Jan 95 18:41

YES! DAVID! Where was this when you were doing the WAR DANCE and sending
out messages about "hacker light infantries" and "ICBMs"....?

"Don't you get it--? The trial never ends!"

- Q

It's all about the ability to rise above the tempations of hate and anger,
and the adrenaline/endorphin rush that come with that scene...

Protect the tribe, be smart, be fast, be serious... but, as Ram Dass said
at our Boulder event this last June-- "keep it fluffy".

house.54.343: Fraser Clark (megatrip) Sat 28 Jan 95 20:08


They're trumpeting in the rest of the US that the California economy is
starting to boom again. Lies and half truths! While they 're telling
people in the UK that America is coming strongly out of recession, here
they tell each state it's happening in the other ones. The truth is the
System is on its knees - and you can tell if you learn to read between
their half truths - put out deliberately because the whole System rests on
a confidence trick, remember?

Here's some findings from a paper "Trends in Income Growth and
Distribution in the San Francisco Bay Region" by Ray Brady and Chin Ming
Yang to be delivered to the Western Regional Science Association.

"Real average income increased from $29,164 in 1978 to $31,130 in 1991 for
the Bay Area. However, real medium income declined from $22,611 to
$20,466 ... " (see what we mean by half truths?) "This indicates that
(even) the technology- and science-rich economy has not benefited Bay Area
residents equally. ... Income skewing is ... a function of the collapse of
the earning potential of more and more individuals ... In short, for most,
the income spiral must be downward. "Nor is income growth stagnation a
specifically Bay Area problem, it is a national condition ... The US and
California economies are shifting to accomodate a more integrated
worldwide economy ... "A permanent decline in the standard of living of
most Americans is no longer a probability, but increasingly a certainty
..." (Let that sink in.)


Ray Brady: "You're seeing in the Bay Area the microcosm of an event
occuring worldwide - the accelerated internationalisation of labour and
capital. As we look forward to the 21st century, we see the fall of
government, which increasingly will be unable to manage the worldwide
economy. The nation state will collapse, it will no longer be relevant.
You'll still have a president and a Congress but they'll be nominal. What
we'll have will be something similar to the robber baron era." (Which
doesn't, of course, mean that these individuals will be hurting
economically - they've known for a long time it's happening and are
already positioning themselves to personally benefit, while dunking us all
in Pollyanna scenarios of economic recovery.


Brady goes on to describe an incredibly sophisticated but strangely
jungle-like world ruled by multinatinoal corporations. A world in which
"the environment is raped daily", violence reaches "unimaginable
proportions" and technology - the engine of pandemic sociocultural
deterioration - becomes a universal object of revilement. "The problem
will take place everywhere. Even the wealthy will say this cannot

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH Don't blame yourself any more if you're suffering hard
economic times. So what can be done? Well, don't expect economists to
know much about that - it's much more a social issue, quite specifically
linked to a lot of the social issues this topic has been going on about
for months now. A new cooperative meme must spread like wildfire, and it
already is through youth culture. Will YOU help? But, anyway, here's what
predetermined. Given what's happening today, we're only *moving* in this
direction. "What can turn this around is the recognition that enough is
enough and that society has a responsibility to people. We'll recognise
that education is the most important expenditure and commit ourselves to a
system that produces high quality individuals. "We'll also begin to
understand that, without a sense of a larger community, diversity is
destructive, that it results in a breakdown of mutual respect."

So much for relying exclusively on "local community" (Miga, are you taking
notes?) and so much for all the wonders of "diversity" (RU Sirius like to
comment?) What we need is a feeling and a growing actuality of
international SOLIDARITY

"We *will* go through a destrutive period , but the future won't be as bad
if we begin to recognise some things. I believe in miracles."

Economists believing in miracles! What do you say, Duck? Is it miracles
the Zippies believe in - or is it *we* who are striving to feel our way
towards the utterly MASSIVE social changes that are needed. Answer me!

(This is not some unusual viewpoint, btw. All the financial
papers are full of this stuff - only ignore the headlines which are always
the most positive news of the day, chosen to shore up confidence)

house.54.344: Find your Inner Barney (rik) Sun 29 Jan 95 11:51

I'm taking notes, Fraser. So far all you've had to say, post after endless
post, is that society sucks and that it's changing. What exactly is it that
you have to offer besides taking drugs and dancing all night. I have yet to
hear one solid idea from you as to what to do.

"Breakdowns come and breakdowns go
What are you going to do about it
That's what I'd like to know"

-Paul Simon

house.54.345: Robert Lauriston (duck) Sun 29 Jan 95 11:58

Fraser, who exactly is this "we" with which you so royally conjugate
your verbs? Who appointed you King of the Zippies, anyway?

house.54.346: Young Owl Hatching (owlmed) Sun 29 Jan 95 12:29



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