Moral-Educational Holograms





house.54.108: Fuzzy Logic (phred) Thu 29 Dec 94 01:44

I thought for a moment wjamesau was trying to be serious.

house.54.109: David Dei (megatrip) Thu 29 Dec 94 02:52

Riane Eisler in "The Chalice and the Blade", gives an excellent argument
based on recent archeological evidence, for the fact that Humanity lived
in relative peace and harmony for thousands of years until the final death
of these "Partnership Societies" and the entry of "Dominator Societies"
about the time of the fall of the Minoan Culture.
If she is right, then we all have ancestry in the Romantic Peace loving
extreme and not the "nasty brutish" version that ledelste would have us
believe.

re 107}I would rather not "Look at our world, without moralism,
and without romanticism, and see it for what it is.", this intellectual
hubris is exactly what was taught by all the Aparthied Teachers I have
encountered. Are you claiming to have discovered the reality of truth?
And which reality is this, a reality where there is no existential
difference btw killing or not killing, btw believing in love or
practising hate? Sitting on the fence of reason is exactly what a whole
lot of people did when Aushwitz, Pol Pot, Sharptown, Bosnia etc went
through its merry historical footnote to our civilisation.

The question is not why these horrors occured, but rather why we sat by
and watched.

And PLEASE no shtick about this not being our concern because none of the
above examples are American.

Latest stats are. The average lifespan of a black man in harlem is less
than a man in Bangladesh. Why should this be, surely not for any "inately
black thing?" or are there cosy racists in the house?


house.54.110: David Dei (megatrip) Thu 29 Dec 94 07:17

THE WORLD AS HORRORGRAM VIEWED FROM A ZIPPY'S CELL

Proud & paranoid superpowers stumbling as to war
while corporate executives' wives get pally
Popes & saintly bureaucrats fumbling in the dark
Those with the strength look up from Alienation Alley
Where the Holy Fools and HIV carriers are banished from the park.

Artists offering stylish Hell believe it's our just reward
Busyness people don't give a damn
Lost souls write to editors who just get bored
Bankers give odds on the End being near at hand
But to the Zippy it's a moral-educational hologram

Today's Everyperson won't sell his soul but
To pay off his mortgage he'll rent it
Arrange a thousand peasants' deaths, then Sunday church repent it
"Father, I was only being professional".
So, hoping to clear his overdraft through the confessional,
He never tells customers the facts. "They'd just resent it."

Everyperson knows but Everyperson knows to
Leave the Battle to our punch-drunk heroes
Cheer them on every night landing blows
on cellulose
and video shows
But the Zippy can't leave it to karma alone
- folks might have already spent it.

Politicians deliver pollution freed from borders
And Everyperson but Everyperson is just obeying orders.

But complaining's not enough, Everyperson does the same,
Nor is Junkie or Yuppie or Terrorist the name
for a Zippy planning hir next move in the Game.

For SHe observes, even at lunchtime concerts in the radiated air,
uninvited Angels with unfashionably dirty wings
muttering in code of other things,
and clues, like dogshit, spread everywhere.
Nature's accusations stick to the soles of hir feet,
shards of cultural change get snarled in hir hair.
Market researchers keep turning up hope in the wierdest possible places.
Cameras record constantly compassion in failures' faces.
SHe sees it can only be Faith which cause their Despair.

Fraser. 1990


house.54.111: sub zero (reid) Thu 29 Dec 94 08:44


This brings to mind something that interests me:

art and politics -- do they mix?

house.54.112: Fuzzy Logic (phred) Thu 29 Dec 94 13:16

Riane Eisler? I am an archeologist by training, and I wouldn't give her
a lot of credence. The reality of our past is much more complex than
the myths we continually invent to justify current wisdom. I have nothing
particularly against Riane Eisler (or my neighbor Jean Auel, who works the
same ground in the fictional context); we do indeed need a positive view
of who we are and where we've come from. I just think our real past is
so much *more* interesting than the latter-day myths these folks try to
spin.

house.54.113: spudboy (mc2) Thu 29 Dec 94 17:55

{AWAITING PERMISSION FROM THE AUTHOR}

house.54.114: Dan Levy (danlevy) Thu 29 Dec 94 18:35


Everybody has their chosen myths of the archic that they use to justify
their unacceptable behavior.

I, for one, am happy to cconsider McKenna's theory that primitive men
ate shrooms to be utterly plausible. McKenna himself likes to use
Eisler's theory to support his own.


The Celestine Prophecy and Mutant Message are clearly just plain
horseshit, but they seem to contain ideas that are comforting to
many readers.

house.54.115: Tom Mandel (mandel) Thu 29 Dec 94 18:48

{AWAITING PERMISSION FROM THE AUTHOR}

house.54.116: Dan Levy (danlevy) Thu 29 Dec 94 19:04


Agreed. Lame-ass book. All I really wanted to say was that I like
shrooms and appreciate any theory that suggests that eating them
is my birthright.


house.54.117: Initiate Paraweld (gareth) Thu 29 Dec 94 19:21

} Agreed. Lame-ass book.

I triple that emotion. The Celestine Prophecy is even stinkier
horseshit. Pure fiction. And, like most of this newage sludge, it's
not even written well. We're doomed, but not 'cause of unseen cosmic
forces or an "unenlightened" populace, but because people continue to
believe in such nonsense.

house.54.118: Find your Inner Barney (rik) Thu 29 Dec 94 19:37

You can follow history back as far as it goes, and you see the same shit.
People in heierarchies, stuggling for power. It's interesting that the only
way we can postulate a different way of life is to push it back into pre-
history where the evidence disappears. Dominating behaviour didn't arise
recently. It's been part of us since we evolved.


house.54.119: Fuzzy Logic (phred) Thu 29 Dec 94 20:20

Eisler is not the only one to misuse the lessons of prehistory. Arthur
Clarke did just as poorly in "2001" -- creating a "believable" scene from
the past to justify his view of how the present (or future) works.
Unfortunately nearly every detail in the "caveman confrontation"
scene early in the movie is simply wrong.

And while the point Clarke was making was powerful -- that tools have
been used to amplify human aggression -- it is undermined by the cavalier
attitude toward what little we do know about our origins. Clarke and
Kubrick made a powerful point, but at the price of the integrity of their
story, in my view.

The same goes when quoting someone like Eisler as a source authority for
interpreting the modern world. The growth of social stratification and
stress as a result of agriculture and the development of modern civilization
is one of the great themes in the archeological record. But romanticizing
it does little good in drawing lessons about what we can and should do
about it.

house.54.120: Tom Mandel (mandel) Thu 29 Dec 94 22:14

{AWAITING PERMISSION FROM THE AUTHOR}

Eisler is basically a flake.

house.54.121: Fraser Clark (megatrip) Fri 30 Dec 94 03:41

"What finally motivated me to write the book 'How You Can Find Happiness
during the Collapse of Western Civilisation' were two conversations I had
with major publishers. In the first of these conversations. the head of a
paperback house said to me: 'Forget the doom-and=gloom stuff. Those
books were good last year, but next year it will be something different -
yoga, diets, animal care, or what have you. These things come and go in
cycles.'

"I was dumbfounded. I couldn't believe that this well-educated,
intelligent executive had absolutely no idea of what was happening in the
Western world. He had become so numb to the increasing chaos he had for
years been witnessing that it no longer registered with him in any
meaningful way."

I'm not going to name the author because I really don't want someone to
say he's suspect, that he was wrong about some other thing in some other
book. I wanna discuss THIS thing because half the time I read this topic
I feel like that author. Do we really have to prove that the
End/Beginning is not only near BUT (hold onto your armchairs now, Internet
brothers and sisters) IT'S ALREADY FUCKING HAPPENING!!? I return to my
anonymous author (whoever identifies him will be showing his own lack of
seriousness because it will just lead a bunch of us off in some irrelevant
direction) - "For years I had been amazed at the gritty tenacity of
Western Civilisation. It seemed incredible to me that it had endured in
the face of one crisis after another, one blow after blow. Now, for the
first time, I understood why. The much-heralded collapse of Western
Civilisation was not an event that was going to take place all at once on
some specific future date. The collapse was an ONGOING phenomenon, an
event that takes place over a long period of time. Everyone who had been
waiting for the long-predicted collapse to occur would wait a long time
indeed, for the collapse had long since begun! Because such people have
erroneously assumed that the collapse would manifest itself as one
momentous, cataclysmic event, they had been oblivious to the fact that it
has not only been in progress for decades, but is rapidly ACCELERATING
before their very eyes."

I prefer the word dissolving to collapsing. System Dissolve has no
suggestion of falling masonry (though every year brings more and more
bigger and bigger louder and louder crashes.) Just a gradual absence of
control of more and more areas of our life - while passing more and more
draconian laws, of course (what else can they do) but without the manpower
or the money to hire the manpower to enforce them. And if you look for
signs of System Dissolution they're everywhere. I mean what signs do any
doubters expect? Do you expect our leaders to 'fess up and announce
"Well, we just got it all wrong. Sorry!"

Now, could we possibly leave that argument aside, accept that the End Game
of the Mammal stage is well begun and not looking at all secured, and
discuss the question: how can we help during the replacement period when
people will be ready for cooperation but scared shitless of itwhat will
replace it - eventually?

Now, the other big question that keeps cropping up in this topic is
related to the level of human cosnsciousness. Are we bloodthirsty
competitive #1ers or cooperative types? I'm definitely in the same camp
as McKenna and the psychedelicists but I think I can also suggest a way
PAST this argument. The Observer, the "expert", is part of what he's
observing. If you've been trained in the culture, history and myth of a
Competitive so-called Civilisation, then you're going to keep finding
signs of it in history. What signs of Love are you going to find? Used
condoms? All so-called aggressive/defensive reflexes and complexes, by
the way, have long been explained by the fear of the Beast, not the fear
of other humans. But here's the most important point. What signs of the
wiped out previous cooperative cultures (if there were any) could you
possibly find? We know of the burning of the books in the womens temples
of Alexandria. We know ALexander the Great (Asshole) put the torch to
thousands of more peaceful spiritual communities in the middle east.
There could have been ninepeacefully evolving spiritual evolutionary
branches for every competitive culture that wiped them out. The truth is
we do not know and maybe never will know - though it is deliciously
curious that the further we move from our beginnings the better equipped
we become to explore them. But that's not the only way to understand
humanity. What we can do is look at the species today . And what do you
find, guys, do you find a race of people who are innately stupid, violent
and competitive? Or do you find, as I do, that people are basically all
right (amazingly so when you consider how abominably they are being
treated - truly an inspiring "gritty tenacity") wanting merely to get
along and be loved, but they're driven by a System with totally different
priorities. I reckon when the first ape picked up the first rock and
clubbed the next ape, the other 98% of the tribe looked at each other
like: "oh no, what experiment is that asshole up to now?" And basically
that violent 2% have bullied and organised us ever since because they just
weren't hip to understanding where competition leads. BUT NOW WE KNOW,
AND EVEN THEY KNOW AS THE WHOLE THING ROTS IN THEIR HANDS. NOW IT'S ALL
AROUND US. Now, finally, we are ready as a species to learn the lesson
and EVOLVE. You evolve by learning from mistakes and this has been the
biggest baddest any species ever had to learn. The 98% gentle cooperative
majority (though badly and maybe irreparably damaged, I agree) is about to
inherit the earth.
But only if we can learn to cooperate again, to rise above our
conditioning by the 2% competitives. And that's where RC comes in. We're
not just practising personal or small community mind expansion, we're
spreading a new global meme around the entire species. A new meme which
glories and exults (after the Near Disaster) in being and living
cooperatively together. And the dancefloor at a proper rave is the
laboratory for this new behaviour where we learn to share small resources
gently. The rave dancefloor is the politest, most caring public place in
this Society. Much more to come.

Fraser.


house.54.122: Ron Ozer (ro) Fri 30 Dec 94 07:57

{AWAITING PERMISSION FROM THE AUTHOR}

house.54.123: The Mojo Sloth (kevins) Fri 30 Dec 94 08:00

Well, at least he's not preaching to the converted; a evangelical mission,
for what ever it's worth.

house.54.124: The Mojo Sloth (kevins) Fri 30 Dec 94 08:01

Slippage: #123 is in response to 121

house.54.125: Wagner James Au (wjamesau) Fri 30 Dec 94 09:19

(megatrip). Babe. Carriage returns. Look into 'em.

house.54.126: Tom Mandel (mandel) Fri 30 Dec 94 10:04

{AWAITING PERMISSION FROM THE AUTHOR}

house.54.127: Jim Cyr (surfpunk) Fri 30 Dec 94 11:24

naive, may well be (imho) exactly were we need to be at . . .
all the intellectual constructs in the world seem to do little to advance
our collective evolution, indeed, defending our theoretical constructs seems
to do very little (if anything) towards speeding us towards our collective
healing. My experience, in recent years, has been to experience a movement
from my head to my body and coming to subtle levels of "knowing" that has
very little to do with "understanding". My favorite tools have been
pschedelic experience and dancing, dancing, dancing - collectively and
through my work-a-day life.

and where will we all be dancing as we turn from 94 to 95 ?

house.54.128: Robert Lauriston (duck) Fri 30 Dec 94 12:27

archy when i lead my
gang into the
apartment at
four in the morning
there are no bolts
or bars anywhere
and not an
inhibition on the place

don marquis, "mehitabel finds a home," ca. 1920


house.54.129: Young Owl Hatching (owlmed) Fri 30 Dec 94 15:20

{WORDS DELETED BY REQUEST}

house.54.130: David Dei (megatrip) Fri 30 Dec 94 15:36

Re} Riane Eisler and the Wester Mind . I gave some thought to the
negative comments, especially the comment that partnership
societies have never existed, that any attempt to look to the past
is flawed, that in essence live has from the very beginning been
nasty brutis and short. "Well, is this true?" i thought. My
intiution said otherwise. Then a flash of divine inspiration. " Did
these partnership societies if they really existed, ever die out?"
and the answer I arrived at was simple. We live in a world that is
not characterised by an homogenous "Twentieth Century Civilisation"
in fact there are many civilisations living side by side. And I
have had the good fortune to witness then first hand. Indeed there
are paleolithic culture's of all sorts existant right now. You
merely have to enquire from an Australian Aboriginal who can trace
his lineage and culture back over 50 000 years, without change.
Do these people live in a state of war? NO. Then take a trip to
Africa, and ask the Khoisan, the !kung, the Damara, all who have
experience of continous culture that predates even the Minoans,
even the Egyptian Dynasties. Ask them, what is your history of war?
And they will till you, indeed, once long ago there was a great
war. A terrible war. "Why that's awful" would be your reply. "And
how many people died in this war?" And they would reply "Just one,
one man, it was a terrible war"

What arrogence for us to assume that these partnership cultures are
dead. THat our culture is the ONLY culture on this planet. And the
tragedy is that we are not looking at isolated examples, but a
whole multitude of peoples.

I am reminded of a program shown recently on the Discovery channel titles
Disappearing Cultures, in which a particular Amazonian Indian tribe, only
recently "discovered" by the Brazilian authorites attended a public
hearing on the building of a massive hydroelectrice dam that would swamp
their home with water. They performed their "war dance" before the
commisioner of the Electric Company. And one of the trival elders spoke
via translation. He said " this is our war dance. war is a terrible
thing. but do you propose to us that We must be moved so that YOU can
build this dam? If this is the fact, then you are saying to us that our
culture must disappear, that 5 or 10 years from now, we will be gone?"
And at that mark, another member of the tribe walked up to the
commisioner and slapped him through the face with the broad side of his
machete, and said. "YOU remember my name, and the names of my tribe.
Write them all down, and remember them"
Well as you can imagine, the commisioner was visibly shocked and moved,
and backed down from his position.

The point is this, in isolating these peoples from the discussion and
debate on how we are to live together, we are no better that all the
Ghetto Mongering Nazis, White Supremicists and suck like. The political
state of the world as of this moment, is one of GLOBAL APARTHIED. The
west has gone out of its way to isolate and wipe out as many Archaic
Cultures as possible, in one case NUKING their home in the case of bikini
atoll. AND HERE IN AMERICA, THERE ARE TRIBES OF INDIANS WHO HAVE NEVER
BEEN PARTY TO A PEACE AGREEMENT, for whom, the Feds still treat with the
same diplomacy of a nation at war.

SO WHILE MY WELL FRIENDS SIT SNUG IN FRONT OF THEIR MONITORS, ENTIRE
FAMILY LINES OF INDIGENOUS ICE AGE INDIANS ARE BEING WIPED OFF THE FACE
OF THIS EARTH. The west is still engaged in genetic pruning. Triming the
passive, peace genes from our brothers and sisters.

IS THIS what we are fighting for? is this the status quo that we would
like to protect. I say NO. not on my life. I refuse to be party to
genocide even in its most subtle form, via remote control. YOU MAY WIPE
THESE PEOPLE FROM YOUR MEMORY, OR PERHAPS you have merely suffered the
misfortune of never seeing the hard reality of it all, of never meeting
anyone of color who was not a slave.


house.54.131: Young Owl Hatching (owlmed) Fri 30 Dec 94 15:40

{WORDS DELETED BY REQUEST}

house.54.132: Young Owl Hatching (owlmed) Fri 30 Dec 94 15:45

{WORDS DELETED BY REQUEST}

house.54.133: Tom Mandel (mandel) Fri 30 Dec 94 17:07

{AWAITING PERMISSION FROM THE AUTHOR}.

house.54.134: Young Owl Hatching (owlmed) Fri 30 Dec 94 18:32

{WORDS DELETED BY REQUEST}

house.54.135: Young Owl Hatching (owlmed) Fri 30 Dec 94 18:34

{WORDS DELETED BY REQUEST}

house.54.136: Young Owl Hatching (owlmed) Fri 30 Dec 94 19:06

{WORDS DELETED BY REQUEST}
house.54.137: let your mind be your sun (tow) Fri 30 Dec 94 19:53

{WORDS DELETED BY REQUEST}

house.54.138: Larry Edelstein (ledelste) Fri 30 Dec 94 21:13

He's got the capability to be on here.

So what the fuck, Zippies? You've said that the world is collapsing, but
slowly, and that we can stop it. You've said that people are basically
good.

And I guess you think that working within "the system" is useless.

So what's your prescription for the application of Zippy culture? You've
communicated your assumptions very well. You've implored us to join
you. What is your plan? If you believe that a plan is only a small
part, you're probably on the right track. Then where's your data? How
about some serious anecdotal evidence? You guys haven't gushed too much
lately about how raving is soooo wonderful and sublime, but you've said
enough before; but if you want us to sign up for your trip, you've got to
talk compelling about *your* future *and* why it will happen.




house.54.139: The Mojo Sloth (kevins) Fri 30 Dec 94 21:17

And, gopod forbid, what about people who don't like to dance? ;-)

house.54.140: Find your Inner Barney (rik) Fri 30 Dec 94 21:20

"We know ALexander the Great (Asshole) put the torch to thousands of more
peaceful spiritual communities in the middle east. There could have been
ninepeacefully evolving spiritual evolutionary branches for every
competitive culture that wiped them out. The truth is we do not know and
maybe never will know"


Thousands of more spiritual communities? I need a few cites from authors
who have names, please. It sounds to me like your making up a story that
you want to hear. This is the problem with New Age "science". there's no
rigor to it. Just feel-good speculation with no attempt to determine if
there's really any truth to it.

If there really were nine peacefully evolving spiritual evolutionary
branches for every competitive culture that wiped them out, then you have an
even bigger problem than you think. There is obviously no survival value in
being a peaceful evolving spiritual culture. The warriors will get you
every time.

If you want to change humanity, you'd better make a rigorous study of who we
really are or you'll have nothing to grab hold of. This whole
competitive/spiritual argument is based on a false dichotomy. The fact is
that everyone of us is both. Consider the Holocaust. To me, the most
horrifying aspect of it wasn't the brutality of the SS. It was the
otherwise good people who aided and abbetted it. The lesson of the
Holocaust is so horrible that the state of Israel has forgotten it. While
it is a matter of faith to me that we are all spritual creatures, the lesson
of the Holocaust is that there is some Nazi in all of us. I'm afraid that
Santayana was talking about you, too, when he said that "Those who do not
remember history are condemned to repeat it"

house.54.141: WorldWideWank.html (mc2) Fri 30 Dec 94 22:26

{AWAITING PERMISSION FROM THE AUTHOR}

house.54.142: Wagner James Au (wjamesau) Fri 30 Dec 94 22:45

I mentioned the Weimar Republic about a dozen posts ago, Mark,
which implicitly explicit enough, don't you think? Anything
to avoid Mnemonic's Law.

But to go right ahead into the thick of it, check this out:

The Zippies are intellectual sheep in search of a cognitive Fuerher.

house.54.143: Fraser Clark (megatrip) Fri 30 Dec 94 23:12

At last this topic is coming alight. I felt it as I was reading the last
dozen or so entries, some alchemical change happened. If that's too much
for some of you, let's just say there was a definite change in the
atmosphere.

owlmed, I'd like to address a point (and others, including phred). have
been making for some time now. There are many many good people, groups and
techniques around who have a legitimate, much needed, indeed vital
contributions to make to the Great Turnaround happening all around us. I
have absolutely no argument about that, indeed my faith in RC is based on
the fact that the System can safely dissolve because there is already
practically in place a plethora of networks and groups who will within the
next 5 years be in a position to take up the strain. My point is, however,
that as long as all these activities are cut off from all the others very
little change is actually happening. "Very little" in terms of what's
needed. (the real question being, as I posed it way back in this topic,
how to change the max number of people in the min amount of time?) And the
answer is to do as Megatripolis achieved in London for a while and made a
start towards in SF - first, to start people meeting regularly in large
numbers, secondly, to base the event in Rave because that's what
deconditions people fastest (it's as scientific or as mystical as you care
to describe it) and then surround, barrage, seduce and invade them with
all these other things.

Look, if I was running an event right now I'd WANT some Reevaluation
Counselling along. And others too. And older hippy philosophers and
scientists - everyone who could make a POSITIVE contribution. It's a bit
like picking the best things around and creating a perfect city of the
future here now which is why we describe Magatripolis as "the future
perfect state". So it's not RC AGAINST anything else. The point about RC
is that it is a glue which can attract all the good and positive to the
same place. It can attract people because it looks like (and is) great
wild fun. Hundreds of thousands of young people (and older where RC is
most evolved) are attracted regularly in a way that no philosophical or
therapeutic movement could ever hope to achieve. What zippies call
edutainment. Nor is it a question of is it fun or is it serious? The
separation of work and play is unnatural, no doubt created by the System
to turn us into worker ants only allowed booze to knock us out with
minimum thinking ever involved. So, to repeat: nobody's saying "ONLY
RC!". It's: here's RC, it's already happening and spreading globally and
attracting the brightest and the bravest, if we can further zippify the
whole phenomenon (as has been fairly well established in Europe now - I
mean in the serious underground) all the good healthy breakthroughs that
others have had and are having can come together and breed a whole new
culture like crazy. THAT's how we change the max no in the min time. So,
owlmed, I know you're very excited about Reevaluation Counselling, but
remember. it's just one of many techniques and approaches that are invited
to this rave. Don't hog the limelight or others will think their insights
are not wanted. Your personal distillation of wisdom from what you've
been through, however, is VERY MUCH APPRECIATED. Fraser.


house.54.144: Young Owl Hatching (owlmed) Sat 31 Dec 94 07:35

{WORDS DELETED BY REQUEST}

house.54.145: Young Owl Hatching (owlmed) Sat 31 Dec 94 08:20

{WORDS DELETED BY REQUEST}

house.54.146: Young Owl Hatching (owlmed) Sat 31 Dec 94 08:22

{WORDS DELETED BY REQUEST}

house.54.147: Larry Edelstein (ledelste) Sat 31 Dec 94 11:11

Fraser says:

} Topic 124 [wired]: the Zippies [continued]
} #143 of 146: Fraser Clark (megatrip) Fri Dec 30 '94 (23:12) 51
} So, to repeat: nobody's saying "ONLY RC!".

...but he really is. In previous posts, Fraser also says:

} Topic 124 [wired]: the Zippies [continued]
} #52 of 146: Fraser Clark (megatrip) Thu Dec 22 '94 (22:52) 44 lines
} What I do say is this: I don't see any other social phenomenon on the
} planet that has any hope of doing it other than Rave Culture.

And then, Fraser (forgetting to change his name)

} Topic 124 [wired]: the Zippies [continued]
} #75 of 146: David Dei (megatrip) Sat Dec 24 '94 (21:36) 65 lines
} I can and shall say a lot more about this, and especially how I see Rave
} Culture (RC) as the only glue which can bind us all together for this
} transition which I am totally convinced is on its way,

So now that you've indicated you are willing to tone down your bombast,
please take ownership of your former transgression before moving ahead.


house.54.148: Wagner James Au (wjamesau) Sat 31 Dec 94 11:42

How many Zippies does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

house.54.149: Larry Edelstein (ledelste) Sat 31 Dec 94 11:48

How many?

house.54.150: Jim Cyr (surfpunk) Sat 31 Dec 94 12:11

Years ago, being the introspective/exploratory type I consider myself to be
I set out to discover my "path with heart" - it has led me to the
sweatlodge, the Sundance, and many experiences of personal and community
healing AND in recent years it has led to the dancefloor of a rave, and to
my perpective the energies invoked are markedly similar. Dancing in a
pow-wow or a rave invoke for me the same communal energies and healing.

from the healing moment comes the opportunity for the evolution and the
reconnection to the authentic self - not the creature that has been molded,
sculptured and finally armored into something ever verging on self-
destruction rather than having a proclivity to celebrating authentic self
within community.

Many of my fellow travelers on their own "paths with heart" and yes many of
us are in our teens, twenties, thirties, forties, fifties, and sixties have
found commonality of prayer and celebration in the crazy wisdom of
partnership communities and on the dance floor - i look forward to
introducing one to the other so that any illusion of separation can be seen
as exactly that - an essential illusion - the "feeling" is the same and
to those who prefer the minimum effort/maximum efficiency method of energy
expansion connecting each other to and supporting each other on our
individual "paths" seems essential to the planetary healing we espouse.
Coming together in a non-hierarchical celebratory gathering gives all an
opportunity to experience and "know" from a place of personal validation
within their own hearts.

house.54.151: Dan Levy (danlevy) Sat 31 Dec 94 12:26


I'm finding it hard to read some of the longer postings here.

Would you guys mind breaking up your posts into shorter paragraphs and
putting a space between the paragraphs? Thanks.


house.54.152: Young Owl Hatching (owlmed) Sat 31 Dec 94 13:31

{WORDS DELETED BY REQUEST}

house.54.153: Fraser Clark (megatrip) Sat 31 Dec 94 15:47

The answer to how many zippies it takes to change a light bulb is 12.
One to DJ. 1 to change the bulb. And 10 to discuss it with the media.

And talking about media, check out a long piece with photos in the next High
Times (out any day in a semi-legal shop near you.

Welcome aboard, Dan Levy. I guess Terence will be next - he'd love the
areas this topic is starting to get into.

One last thing for this year. I agree totally with the view that the
Rainbow/Hippy/even New Age has to crossover with the Raver thing for real
progress to be made. That's why a band of zippies took the rave for the
first time to the annual Rainbow Gathering in Wyoming this last summer
which, despite all the usual paranoias in advance, turned out to be well
loved and appreciated by the Rainbow folks and assorted ravers who trekked
along because of that. Watch out for many more ravers this next summer -
the Crossover has begun. That was also why we went for the mega rave at
the Grand Canyon in August. 10,000 people, 2 tipi circles, and raves every
night for 4 nights with much crossover happening. By next summer when the
rave scene really explodes into public awareness these 2 crossovers will
have become legends which was always our aim (the Culture itself is the
new front line) so that every raver and every Rsainbow persona will know
that it's already hapened successfully. That's why we recently redefined
Zippy as a Rainbow Raver.
Much more next year as the whole thing hots up.
Happy new Year to one and all.
Fraser. 12/31/'94.

house.54.154: Find your Inner Barney (rik) Sat 31 Dec 94 19:03

Fraser, the foundation upon which you rest your philosophy is a bit shaky.
You are making assertions with no backin Statements like:

"We know ALexander the Great (Asshole) put the torch to thousands of more
peaceful spiritual communities in the middle east."

are going to leave you with no credibility if you can't back them up. And
if you think people are basicly good until "the System" corrupts them,
you're going to need to explain how "the System" became so widespread.
Indigenous cultures in the New World were every bit as murderous as those in
Europe, and they'd been out of contact with the eastern hemisphere since the
last Ice Age. The Aztecs, Mayans, Toltecs, and such, weren't what you call
peac loving. The Iroquois elevated torture to an art form. Your history is
a bit shaky. And history is the foundation of the future..

house.54.155: David Dei (megatrip) Sat 31 Dec 94 19:29

Is there anyone in the house who can prove that the universe was'nt made
today, complete with history, carbon 12 decay and our memory of the past?
I think not. But Cogito Ergo Sum is the whole of the law. Script the
universe as you will. AND which multiverse would you like it to be. A
brutal one or a compassionate one? And if by some divine accident you
should find yourself alive in the former, then why not construct an
amazing escape plan. Scripting the evolution as it were. So in this
exquisite and infinite universe, how is humanity saved? By an alien space
race? An external threat like an approaching comet? By the sudden
rediscovery of a music breaks the spell of numb-headedness? By the steady
emergence of a many-headed worldwide youth rebellion? By the rediscovery
of emotion as an evolutionary tool? What would you have it be? 1995 and
we are half way through the 90s and 5 years to the bi-millenium, and have
we commited ourselves to at least one version of this re-mythologising of
reality, this attempt to alter the fate of the planet. Or is dystopia
your true GOAL. Where would you have us be at the turn of the century?
Its a game, an exquisite and divine game, where the is no room for fence
sitting spectators, unless of course you believe that watching TV might
be the key?

Oh purchance to dream, to recall a future extending from this present
with your very self as a key character. Heroes all. And what evidence
would you like to find? Strange enough that Arthur C CLarke should remind
us of Shoemaker Levy and Jupiter, an event surely if any, to suggest that
mythology is a closer rendering of reality than even our quantum
scientists would have it. Strange that the week of the impact should also
be the 25th anniversary of humanities greatest (possibly) achievment, the
landing of a man on the moon?

I can only wonder, who really scripts this wonderful play, and is
Shakespeare really a genius from a distant future time, reminding us that
the world is really a stage on which we all stand, the cast of characters
rather small, with props universal and special effects by the gods
enchanted, and the true mystery - we are all to the last, alone, born
into this amazing situation without manual nor clue as to what beauty
awaits us at end or if its all really one great cosmic stew.
1995, as good a year as any to evolve.
luck
david dei

house.54.156: Fraser Clark (megatrip) Sat 31 Dec 94 20:19

And now, a last sermon for the darkest hour of the year when the great
Life-Giver is far from us, and the memory stirs in our genes of our Fear
that SHe might never come back.

For the sake of Auld Lang Sine, then, let's raise our glass to Paganism.

Before monotheism came along, you see - I'm talking way back before even
america was thought about - we were ALL pagans, each worshipping hir own
particular model of reality or god/ess as SHe saw fit. (Pretty much where
we underground types have gotten back to today) Larry worshipped the sun,
Duck worshipped the moon and David worshipped sex, let's say.
Occasionally, if we became mates, I might worship the sun with you or you
might worship sex with me, or we might try worshipping the animals we
hunted, or the wind.

Then along came this terrible monotheism idea which wrongfooted everyone.
Suddenly there was only one correct way, and everyone else was just a
lunatic, and soon a dangerously deluded dissident. That led directly and
utterly inevitably to the Roman world-domination set-up. On which
terrible and mistaken path we have continued right up to the present day.
Today's System, as I speak of it, where everything must be sucked into its
place in the pecking order. Everyone knows their place and the best we so
modern types have come up with is to invent a sort of limbo-land where
we're sort of outsiders inside the System. Great stuff, white man!

The swingback to sanity, as I view History, began when our human species
finally evolved beyond the point where it would tolerate actually
physically destroying System-dissidents (like burning traditional old lady
herbalists so "consumers" would buy the new, rat-tested, patented and
expensively packaged, government-approved, over-the-counter chemicals that
some whizz kid neurotics had patched together). From that point, the race
was on. For we pagani (from the Latin paganus meaning non-military
personnnel) have been spawning uncontrollably since then. Until today,
just as the monotheistic Western Roman European American Military
Industrial Corporate Complex reaches out to grab the last of the planet by
the balls, the fucking thing it's clutching so tightly expires in its
hands PLUS the PAGAN counter movement reaches its highest point, its
largest numbers AND
...

Who wins now (and remember it's all of us or none of us) is up to each of
us, for each of us is being weighed in the Final Reckoning. Where will YOU
be, bro? At your weekly government-sponsored masturbation class, or
farting your cynicism secretly on the internet in the absurd belief that
the scientists have pretty much worked it all out and we might as well
resign?

I'm off to dance my ass off at Begin Again, The Other New Year Party and,
just maybe, the massive CoolWorld Rave at the Cow Palace.

Fraser. 8pm, 31.12. 94


house.54.157: Find your Inner Barney (rik) Sat 31 Dec 94 20:32

You're dodging me, Fraser.

house.54.158: Fraser Clark (megatrip) Sat 31 Dec 94 20:42

Sorry, Rik, I'd already written that last piece before your post arrived
- so I just added a couple of relevant comments.
Ithink it should be clear by now that our position is that nobody knows
for sure - that, if peace loving types were wiped out we'd know pretty
much nothing about it. That many psychedelic communities still exist
today. That just because the gentle got wiped out doesn't mean they were
wrong, it means they were right because the victors are getting wiped out
now and have been innerly warped and punished for generations now. In a
competitive culture everybody loses (I'm not talking about dollars
obviously.)
As for Alexander the Great Hasnamuss, my main reference was Gurdjieff.
What do you base your theory on? A Christian missionary with an axe to
grind and a bit of bone, perhaps?
Fraser

house.54.159: Jim Cyr (surfpunk) Sat 31 Dec 94 21:11

well, Fraser, now that you've brought up Gurdjieff, i wonder if use of the
enneagram as reference point would be understood by most involved in this
conversation -NOT as has increasingly lately become the use of the enneagram
as latter-day "what's your sign?" typing of personalities (i suspect
that Fraser is a "7") but as a living map of process

i, too, am off to the pagan revels of this night - happy new opportunity to
all !

house.54.160: Young Owl Hatching (owlmed) Sat 31 Dec 94 23:55

{WORDS DELETED BY REQUEST}

house.54.161: Young Owl Hatching (owlmed) Sat 31 Dec 94 23:56

{WORDS DELETED BY REQUEST}

house.54.162: Young Owl Hatching (owlmed) Sat 31 Dec 94 23:56

{WORDS DELETED BY REQUEST}

house.54.163: Larry Edelstein (ledelste) Sun 1 Jan 95 04:19

Megatripians, I've been to a couple of raves and I didn't have a lot of
fun. When I took some X I enjoyed myself, but otherwise, I didn't talk
to a fucking soul. I love dancing and like doing it until the sun has
risen, but w/o funny substances, I don't find it to be a bonding sort of
thing, or whatever you are thinking of. What *are* you thinking of? It
it useless, as you see it, to try to experience the Rave w/o
psychedelics? Go on about it a little, and try to make some sense to us
rational types, love.


house.54.164: Robert Lauriston (duck) Sun 1 Jan 95 14:25

Visualize paragraphs.
back

The Zippy Pronoia Tour site was developed by cubensis@well.com © 1995.
Extra special thanks to the gracious, skoochin' internet love-fest.