UK (pre-tour), Part I:
Beginnings/Rainbow Debate

house.34: the Zippies
{linked 3 places}

house.34.0: look out, here it comes! (miga) Sat 7 May 94 11:12

There's been quite a bit of talk lately about the Zippies, a UK based group
made up of ravers and new age travelers, and associated with Fraser Clark.
The current Wired magazine covers them. They plan to tour the US this
summer, including the annual Rainbow gathering. What's up with this?

house.34.1: look out, here it comes! (miga) Sat 7 May 94 11:29

Here's the discussion from house 28 - Ravin in the UK

house.28: Ravin' in the UK!

house.28.20: John Bagby (cubensis) Tue 19 Apr 94 05:19

Megatripolis is now Thursdays at Heaven (By the river Thames at Villers)...
Mr. McKenna is returning to inspire/edify the Zippys once again...
May 5
May 12 - Mckenna at Megatriplois
May 19 -Ram Dass at Megatripolis

AND... for those of you into cross-pollenation...
the Megatripolis gang is going on Tour!


(as featured in the May issue of WIRED magazine)

Megatripolis/Evolution Magazine on a USA tour with the Rainbow family!

July 1-7, 1994 Lander, Wyoming
Steamboat Springs, Colorado
Aspen, Colorado
Vale, Colorado

August 21-28 "Paradigm Jumping off the Grand Canyon Rave"
Red Butte (South Rim of Canyon)

October 21-31 TBA

more details to follow...

No disrespect to HRM subjects intended...
The bigger the dominator, the better the counter-culture...?

house.28.21: harry (jcgsu) Tue 26 Apr 94 12:57

none taken here..

how do the zippies feel about lining up and being frisked by the OTT
security down there at Heaven then?

congrats to Kevin Millens and Frazer Clarke for getting together though, I
wonder if it will last as long as Rage (grin)

Let us know more about the US tour when you know, It looks like the Grand
Canyon one will fall nicely into my road trip plans this summer......
trippin n skippin n dippin....

Have you considered coming down south??

house.28: Ravin' in the UK!

house.28.24: harry (jcgsu) Wed 27 Apr 94 14:51

isn't paradigm jumping dangerous though mother??

house.28.25: Steppin Razor (spikey) Tue 3 May 94 17:57

There's a few open air events going on this year(that's if they're not
Lydd Airport was a flop.
Greenham Common was a flop.

Loads of bullshit.

isn't paradigm jumping dangerous though mother??

I think so sonny.

house.28: Ravin' in the UK!

house.28.31: do you want it right now? (miga) Thu 5 May 94 06:36

thanks for all the stuff from the net and the Zippie reports! I just saw
the Zippies in Wired - Grand Canyon sounds great, but so does it all. Too
bad I can't become a new age traveler for the summer!

Has anyone else seen the Wired article or heard about the Zippies? I think
it's great that these two groups finally connected and can't wait to see it
over here.

house.28.32: Zippy - aye - ay, cowboys... (cubensis) Thu 5 May 94 07:06

I was given the following from Fraser Clark yesterday. Please feel free to
spread the word, as the bullshit gets whittled away into concrete reality
(we hope!), I'll be posting updates as they become available...


(* the feeling that others are conspiring to help you)

Any relatively conscious planeter has at least begun to suspect that the
competition-based system within which human culture is currently operating
is incapable of adapting, and needs to be re-coded. A self-enclosed system
cannot observe itself (i.e. it has no sense of humour)!

The Sign for which we all yearn (so deep in our hearts that it feels like
world angst or personal depression) must announce in a Grand and Magickal
manner-- as far removed from he old style Business Plan as possible-- that
WE, the relatively conscious, are a hell of a lot more numerous than even WE
supposed. This Sign must also demonstrate these numbers-- that, indeed, it
is precisely because we have been increasing daily underground that the
point has now been reached where the manifesting of such a Sign has become
possible... and inevitable.

For consider: this Sign, because it will alert the next fractal ring of
increasingly conscious planeters, will precipitate unimaginable global
social change. Therefore, the most important questions become: from where
in the culture could this Sign appear? Are there already hints of it? And,
are YOU ready to help it happen?

In very real, here and now terms, where is there a new cooperative cultural
meme of sufficient and accelerating numbers into which we might usefully
insert and apply our own skills and energies? This meme must also make its
adherents eager to swarm together in large celebrations of new lifestyle.

The news is good. Very, very good.

I see only one sociological phenomenon within Western Culture which has any
chance of bringing about the required maximum change in the maximum number
of people in the minimum period of time. UK Rave Culture has been evolving
for five years now, and at its most accelerated, the tribal rave scene has
united the raw young idealism and enthusiasm of Rave with the eco-wisdom of
Festival Culture to produce a mix of meltdown proportions.

T H E Z I P P Y, harmonised in both hemispheres of the brain,
technoperson and hippie.

Nobody has to give up anything-- merely start activating your ignored
hemisphere. Literally ALL are welcome, for all will benefit. And its
because everyone will be happier when the evolution has occurred that it
will succeed. You are invited (and very definitely needed) to make it
-Fraser Clark
May, 1994

house.28.33: John Bagby (cubensis) Thu 5 May 94 07:08

And the latest dates...

NOTE: Where Rave is used, Ambient Rave is intended
May 15 Rainbow Gathering in Central Park, New York
Michael John introduces the Zippy Idea to Family

June 9-11 Zippy Netweave Legend Launch (Press Conference)
3 p.m., The Meadow, Central Park, New York
(Possible fund-raiser private party or clubs)

June 18 NYC Rave
(other E. Coast events June 7-24 are being

June 24/25 Boulder, CO Raves

July 1-8 Rainbow GatheRave
Rainbow Gathering, Wyoming

July 8- Aug 21 Zippy Pronoia dates TBA

Each night at World Unity Music Festival
Flagstaff, Red Butte, AZ
South Rim, Grand Canyon (Free outdoor on 26th??)

October 21-31 MEGA BIO RAVE
250,000 Zippy ravers at/around Biosphere 2, Arizona

For more information:

Box 833, London, NW6, UK
VOICE: 071 624 9276

house.34.2: look out, here it comes! (miga) Sat 7 May 94 11:30

and more...

house.28: Ravin' in the UK!

house.28.34: Smiles in the morning (tow) Thu 5 May 94 08:15


house.28: Ravin' in the UK!

house.28.37: Fuzzy Logic (phred) Fri 6 May 94 04:35

I tend toward Matt's view of this too. And for one thing, if they're
serious about making the connection between spirituality and raving
and harmonizing the brain and all that, why in the hell aren't they
coming to SF?

This is pure unadulterated bandwagon-jumping hype.

On the other hand, much of the R*** scene is home to its own equivalent
kind of hype.

Anyway, I wouldn't want to begrudge those who go to "Zippy" or traveler
events or what-have-you with good intentions and good spirits. What
*they* make of it, as consumers-of-hype-vibes or creators-of-great-vibes
the choice is theirs and they (and those of us who are outside that
scene for the most part but are interested in making good faith
connections across all kinds of boundaries) will run across each other
eventually as a result.

One more thing -- this fixation with Biosphere II is bad. I have
long been on record on the Well (going back to Kevin Kelly's first
article about it in WER) as to my opinion that it is bogus science,
despite its many specific scientifically valid pieces. But it seems
to attract the same fuzzy-headed devotion from the New Age-y types
that, say, Disneyland does from suburban sitcom America.

Sorry that's my rant for the week!

house.28: Ravin' in the UK!

house.28.38: gregor markowitz (muddy) Fri 6 May 94 09:16

There are a couple of problems with a rave at the Rainbow Gathering.
One is the aversion on the Rainbow Family to amplifiede music. Right off
they won't let you bring it into the gathering. The rave will be in the
parking lot far from the gathering - in A camp (alcohol camp) near the
front gate with the cops and the weirdness.
Two is the problem of the new Forest Service Regulations which may be
enforced at this years gathering. The Rave organizers MUST be in touch
with Rainbow Legal as this situation is charged and potentially
dangerous. They can be contacted: or
Also the newsgroup alt.gathering.rainbow.

As a long time Rainbow gathering attendee, I'm a little put off by this
whole thing and sick to my stomach over the WIRED article. But - I
believe in bringing people together and am therefor excited by this
RAVE addition.
Also, if you are not aware, zippie! is an american group formed as an
offshoot of Yippie! Zippie is zeitgiest international party and was/is
to yippie what the weather underground was to SDS. There are still zippies
still living underground because of government prosecution. Many zippies
were involved in the early phone phreaks and are now cyberpunks.
I bailed Captain Crunch out of jail - twice. We made the Sex Pistols
movie called DOA.

What I am trying to say is that in America, there have been two authentic
groupings of people which I know of that shunned media and remained "real".
They are the Rainbow Family and the Zippies. Both groups are very old
and ingrained in the culture of kids that never even heard of them.

Now these names are being copped by this British money making organization
maybe to show that they have some sort of cross-market. Personally,
I'm at peace with this and I appreciate Michael-John even though he is
sort of an outcast because of his high-tech rainbow approach and other

I hope the organizers will be humble enough to pay tribute to these
historical groups. If they continue to piss people off - well, that's
not so good. I suggest we all touch each other one way or another
early on here because I know there is real feeling behind the
megarave effort and I don't want to see it laughed at.
In fact, call me now 202.387.5419

house.34.3: look out, here it comes! (miga) Sat 7 May 94 11:45

Interesting, thanks especially for the Rainbow perspective. I've never been
to a Rainbow Gathering [though I've wanted to ever since I heard of them] but
I'd heard they didn't have amplified music. My hope is that the Zippies [UK]
are in fact working with Rainbow - or that tey will contact them soon. I'm
not sure what to think about all this - I have always thought that ravers and
hippies had a lot in common and have been trying to bring to two worlds in
contact [through the Atomic parties we do at the coliseum when the Dead play,
for example] but I must admit Mr Clark does make me a bit nervous. I've never
met him and his intentions seem good, but as muddy points out if this doesn't
work out both groups will suffer for it and that will make it that much harder
to try to connect in the future. OTOH, our only hope is to get together with
other cool folks who're trying for the same goals... by "our" here I mean
very much in general - everybody, not any particular group.

I'm going to take a look at that Wired article...

house.34.4: gregor markowitz (muddy) Sun 8 May 94 08:01

My last post sounded a bit harsh - I have talked to many rainbow people
who will be running the kitchens, the medical, front gate, shitter squads,
legal monitoring and the like and they all say, as I do, WELCOME HOME!
You are the Rainbow Family and we are more than welcome at the gathering.

This is a year not to miss. I'm going early. There is a solar bus in my
parking lot getting fixed up to leave for Wyoming on June first for seed
camp. The kitchen we are bringing is capable of cooking 500 gallons of
good food daily and that's just one kitchen! We are Sunrise kitchen and

house.34.5: jonl (jonl) Sun 8 May 94 21:37

Linked from house 34 to fringeware 70.

house.34.6: Fuzzy Logic (phred) Sun 8 May 94 23:07

There's quite a bit on Fraser Clark in Doug Rushkoff's new book,

house.34.7: John Bagby (cubensis) Mon 9 May 94 10:04

In case anybody would like to pass on some MORE honest criticism, or even-
hey, what the hell,-- a little encouragement---

I'm downloading the pertinent posts for Fraser to look at on his PC.

house.34.8: Mild-Mannered Memetician (kreth) Mon 9 May 94 14:20

Now linked from House 34 to Wired 82 (thanks M !)

house.34.9: Gaia Passage BBS 912-265-0784 7pm-7am EST/EDT (mle) Mon 9 May 94 15:48


house.34.10: Are we having wishful thinking yet? (mc2) Mon 9 May 94 20:15


house.34.11: Mild-Mannered Memetician (kreth) Mon 9 May 94 20:31

While I personally don't think there an ice-cube's chance in hell that the
Zippie invasion will happen in Wyoming this year, I thought all sides should
thrash out the facts from the wishful whimsy being stirred up. That's why I
linked this here. Reports of contrarian views from alt.gathering.rainbow

house.34.12: Fuzzy Logic (phred) Mon 9 May 94 22:21

As I posted just now on sf-raves concerning Mathew Fox's interest in
holding 'rave masses' at the Grace Cathedral, merging raving with something
like the Zippie/Traveler phenomenon seems like a stretch but we shouldn't
overlook any possibilities to link with other open-minded folks. However,
such efforts are only successful when they are truly based on an *authentic*
experience or sharing of ideas and concepts (and music!), rather than just
a forced-together pastiche.

house.34.13: John Bagby (cubensis) Tue 10 May 94 03:21

Exactly-- don't overlook possibilities... sure, there is hype, sure there
are ego... these things are in every coalition of countercultural cadres
(sorry, got that alliteration disease...)

Anyway, looking around at the different types of people at the Megatripolis
culb in London, or at a rave inSF, or a Family gathering, there is a common
and shared experience!

All of these people share the ecstacy of shamanic dance, they all have been
hassled by "the man" at some time or another... many of them report similar
mystical experiences which really know no borders... I think we have to
becareful of "clique" mentality, if we want to get this meme really movin'
in the mainstream... I know it's not as cool if your next door neighbor's
teenage MTV watcher knows about the same stuff you thought you had a
monopoly on, but isn't a Zippie better than Beavis?

(For the record, if they're gonna call Kurt Cobain "the voice of a
generation" because he has blessed by the random MTV talent/exploitation
machine, is it a bad thing to try and insert some quality values into the
cultural mainstream?)

house.34.14: John Bagby (cubensis) Tue 10 May 94 03:27

To open some dialogue here with some of the British, I'm going to post
excerpts of an interview I did (and am doing...) with Fraser Clark. A lot
of things are being said about him.. why not judge for yourself?

The Wired piece was an overview with some poor research, but basically
sound. High Times is doing a huge feature on the Zippies, as is MTV
sometime this summer. The media can blow up any section of this thing, so
let's put the positives in there with the negatives...
From a conversation with Fraser Clark, May 5, 1994 in London:

JOHN: The Zippies live in a big tent. The kinds of people
Ive seen attracted to events here in the UK include new-agers, cyberpunks,
industrial/techno people, hardcore ravers, hippies, travellers, pagans and
Christians. Theyre all coming for different reasons.

FRASER: The great thing about the whole scene is that its really a
big melting pot where everybody can come together and drop their style and
cultural differences and become ravers for a while. Its a key cultural
thing thats happening there. I don;t know why its a rave atmosphere, but
something had to come along that allowed everybody to feel the same.
Now were coming out of beingable to define rave. I mean, now,
everybodys getting back to their roots. Yourre getting reggae-house, folk-
house, and lots more, but youve still got the identification. A hardcore
type feels like a raver, standing next to a reggae type, who feels like a
raver. Theres this common feeling that were all in this together.

JOHN: How would you identify with the hip hop cultures use
of rap and sampling as a form of political communication? Hip hop artists
like Arrested Development and the Disposable Heroes of Hiphopricy can get
across concepts to people unfamiliar with the territory. What does the
Zippy scene offer which could tempt the inner-city hip hop fan?

FRASER: The Rainbows have been putting on gatherings for the last 25
years, and they get who they get. Once the ravers, the techno side, conect
with them-- we call it festirave crossover here in Europe-- you get the
energy and enthusiasm of youth, and the wisdom and ecology of the older
hippie-types. You put the two together and get a cultural synergy that can
really work. Thats happened in the UK and Im sure its going to happen in
America, too.

More to come, feedback of all kinds is welcome!

house.34.15: gregor markowitz (muddy) Tue 10 May 94 07:08

FRASER: The Rainbows have been putting on gatherings for the last 25
years, and they get who they get. Once the ravers, the techno side, conect
with them-- we call it festirave crossover here in Europe-- you get the
energy and enthusiasm of youth, and the wisdom and ecology of the older
hippie-types. You put the two together and get a cultural synergy that can
really work. Thats happened in the UK and Im sure its going to happen in
America, too.

Rainbows are whoever comes, we don't *get* anyone. Cultural synergy is
an ongoing healing force. I'm sure the "festirave crossover" has been
happening for a long time in America, although many of the older hippy-like
elders don't really care to be "wise teachers". People are people. Each
one is unique. Why all the walls, catagories, buzzwords and labels?

I can't believe that UK has a lot in grass roots technology to offer
because computers and techno gear cost approx. twice as much there and
the average younger person is poorer. It's like they're sending the
style, the sizzle - not the stirfry.

I will buy Fraser a modem if he can get on here. And a well account.
Tell him that.

house.34.16: Matt (pus) Tue 10 May 94 07:29

The reason why I don't get terribly excited about the arrival of the Zippies
is because I don't see that they're doing anything new. There have always
been hippy types taking drugs and trying to get out of it, and espousing
dodgy philosophies on the way. The fact that they're doing it to a house
beat doesn't mean so much. Nor does the fact that these days they're
staring for hours at computer-generated pctures on the wall.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not slating the rave idea at all. Far from it.
It's just that I think what was amazing about the house explosion was what
it did for the casuals - working class kids with bored urban perspectives -
and clubbers who had been disappearing up their own arses fuelled by charlie
and booze. Raves and E put some life into clubland for a while, and
transformed the music that young poeple were listening to.

Consequently I object to Fraser Clark and others trying to fit raves into
his hippy-centric (?) view of history. The people who started raving were
not living "post-Fraser" as he seems to like to think. Rave was just a new
subcult (althoug h of course it shared some of the themes and attitudes of
previous subcuts). And it was only much later that hippy/crusty types got
in on the act.

Zippies - don't let them rewrite history!

house.34.17: Robert Lauriston (duck) Tue 10 May 94 10:28

Around 1979 my girlfriend's cousin and the cousin's boyfriend, both
around 18, arrived in S.F. from Nebraska. The day they showed up they
were long-haired hippies in tie-dye. A few days later they had bleached-
white crewcuts and were wearing all black.

house.34.18: Gaia Passage BBS 912-265-0784 7pm-7am EST/EDT (mle) Tue 10 May 94 10:50


house.34.19: RUSirius (rusirius) Tue 10 May 94 11:05

Well, arguments aside, I *do* hope you all have an incredibly great time...
and success...

house.34.20: Gaia Passage BBS 912-265-0784 7pm-7am EST/EDT (mle) Tue 10 May 94 15:56


house.34.21: look out, here it comes! (miga) Tue 10 May 94 17:40

Thanks, Marcus, for posting the stuff from Usenet. I agree with what Phred
and Muddy have said - if there is to be a real connection between the gropus
it will have to be on a real, individual level. Otherwise it will just lead
to contention and make both groups more closed-minded about the other, sigh.

Also, the reason _I_ do not want MTV-level coverage of the house scene is
that I don't want to see a bunch of clueless, beer-guzzling frat types
descending on the scene who I will have to clean up after! Yes, I'm calling
names. I've been going to parties since 1991 and always stay at the end to
clean up [including picking other people's cigaret butts and beer cans out
of the sand] and you can definitely tell when there is a big influx of
people who are new to the scene and just don't think about picking up after

What is the goal of the publicity?

house.34.22: look out, here it comes! (miga) Tue 10 May 94 17:41

BTW, I don't mean to come off as overly harsh. Like the rainbow folks, this
is my community and I have worked hard to make it happen and I fear it's

house.34.23: gregor markowitz (muddy) Wed 11 May 94 06:41

I would like to see R.U. Sirius at the Wyoming Ga.

house.34.24: gregor markowitz (muddy) Wed 11 May 94 09:02

RE: Drugs: zippies and Rainbows

No One may speak for the Rainbow Family. The Family speaks through
consensus of the Council. The Council only exists on the land, July 1-7.

I have to remind you that anything anyone says (esp. me) is not the
opinion or "official resolution" of the Rainbow Family.

From the WIRED (wired 2.05, May, 1994) article on the zippies, by
Jules Marshall:
Zippies are unashamedly psychedelic - hash spliffs, ecatasy, acid,
mushrooms, and for the hip and well-connected, DMT.

I would like remind you that the Rainbow Gathering is a healing gathering
which is no where more apparent than with the brothers and sisters who
are cleaning their bodies from various drug addictions, or even undergoing
active withdrawal symptoms.
There has been much debate over what to do about the alcohol users
who are also our family members. Right now there is sort of an unofficial
"A camp" based in parts of the parking lot.

So you can see the Rainbow Gathering has a stake in not having drugs
on the land. In my opinion, the healing power of the gathering on those
suffering unwanted drug addictions is very important.
There is a resolution from the council on this issue which I hope to post

house.34.25: Jonathan E. (jeve) Wed 11 May 94 10:22

World Unity Festival is being produced by Quetzalcoatl Productions, 4 South
San Francisco St. #438, Flagstaff, AZ 86001; phone/fa 602-773-9669 or
602-779-9206. Maybe they can tell you whether it's on or not.

house.34.26: Mild-Mannered Memetician (kreth) Wed 11 May 94 20:23

Having seen first hand whole converted schoolbuses of people busted for
drugs, and miles and miles of car lines being held-up by the Nevada snd
Idaho State Police at the Nevada Gathering of 1989, I'd caution people to
think about the fact that bumfuck Wyoming is _not_ a metropolitan city where
so much is permissable and attitudes are more forgiving.

Thanks for your comments, {muddy}. I won't make it to Wyoming this year, but
I hope that people have a safe and hassle-free Gathering.

house.34.27: Gaia Passage BBS 912-265-0784 7pm-7am EST/EDT (mle) Thu 12 May 94 07:35


house.34.28: gregor markowitz (muddy) Thu 12 May 94 08:16

I went to a "Town Meeting" with the head ot the National Forest Service
last night called "Reinventing the NFS". Since a dozen Rainbows went, we
had people in each workgroup, so when the reports from the workgroups
happened, our concerns were well covered.
Actually, this was a public town meeting, but we were the only non Forest
Service people there.
We have let them know that enforcement of the new guidelines they are
proposing will be a real can of worms and that we know that the previous
two attempts to require permits from groups like the Rainbows were felled
by the courts.
They can't figure out why we don't want to pee in plastic portajohns
up in the woods five miles from the nearest skinny dirt road.

Once again, if you would like to talk to the Rainbow Legal-leason about
this or other issues, their address is

house.34.29: Robert Lauriston (duck) Thu 12 May 94 10:18

How nice that you are willing to defend your right to pollute public
watersheds. Perhaps you could form an alliance with the logging
companies, who have a similar attitude toward public lands. The
Forest Service seems to have a deep understanding of the "do what
thou wilt" philosophy.

house.34.30: jonl (jonl) Thu 12 May 94 11:36

Hey, duck didn't you ever take a leak in the woods? With 20,000 of your

house.34.31: Gaia Passage BBS 912-265-0784 7pm-7am EST/EDT (mle) Thu 12 May 94 15:54


house.34.32: John Bagby (cubensis) Fri 13 May 94 10:37

processing data... please wait

Q: What do you think about the Zippie Pronoia Tour to America?

A: Every year I come back to Britain it is bigger and stronger.
I see no reason that can't happen in America.
But, if it stumbles, the thing could get set back for a short time."

-Terence McKenna, to crowd at Megatripolis in London during Q&A

house.34.33: John Bagby (cubensis) Fri 13 May 94 10:40

(That's May 12, sorry, UK mode)

house.34.34: gregor markowitz (muddy) Sat 14 May 94 00:40

Well if it stumbles at the Rainbow, there'll be family there to lean on.

house.34.35: John Bagby (cubensis) Mon 16 May 94 04:25

thanks, 'cause paradigm jumping can be dangerous!

The following is a statement issued from Fraser Clark on 15 May, 1994:

a message from fraser clark

Sitting here in London this last month has been a truly historical
edutainment, watching Americas truly hip psyche voice its first reactions to
the Wired article on the imminent landing of the zippies. Id like to double
underline reactions. One of the first rules of Sacred Sociology is to watch
and ALLOW reactions-- and the only evolutionary way forward is past those
reactions. Equally, Id like to allow all who have criticized us (or me) the
courtesy of at least one further reaction (hopefully a PRONOID one this
time) because, bottom line, this is all were really saying:

House culture might just be the last chance were going to get to drop all of
our cultural and species differences and all COME TOGETHER again to jump our
evolution into the next level of imagination-- before the Old Age pulls us
down with it. If, as many in the House culture will tell you, this isnt the
case, then lets see if we cant make it so. What else do you think might

Regarding the paranoias stirred up on the Net by the Wired article, I notice
theyve started sorting themselves out (which feels very psychologically
healthy) but, nevertheless they raise crucial questions which are going to
come up again and again. They fall broadly into SIX CATEGORIES, and Id like
to address them one at a time over this week, and then perhaps respond
further to peoples comments. The SIX are:

ONE: Were breadheads taking in $20,000 a week at Megatripolis,
the most successful club in Europe, and were on our way over to charm your
dollars out of you.

TWO: Were New Age Travellers into general penniless anarchy and soap-
dodging irresponsibility.

THREE: Were cynical old hype merchants pushing our own ego agendas.

FOUR: Im personally a fascist, over-the-top, religious extremist with a
thought control agenda for world domination.

FIVE: Im personally just a pleasant enoght fool whos a bit of an
embarassment to most hip people.

SIX: Were into bad science.

Again, I will post responses to this first batch of Noidagories over the


P.S. Regarding response 15 in the Zippies WELL topic: Gregor-- Thanks,
and yes to your offered stirfry ingredients. The olive oil is spattering

house.34.36: Robert Lauriston (duck) Mon 16 May 94 09:11

Re his category 3, I didn't call him cynical, and his use of the royal
"we" is telling. Professional self-promoters often like to put the
world into themselves.

house.34.37: come and hear... (miga) Mon 16 May 94 15:34

Well it seems that he's responding to feedback from a variety of places [not
just this topic] and boiling it down into categories. Also I see a
distinction between the we in 3 and the I in 4 and 5 so to me that doesn't
read as the "royal we"

My concerns don't fall into any of those categories... maybe I'm unique in
the world. I'd add a 6 - something along the lines of:

SIX: We have the best of intentions but are going about our goal in a way
that could cause more harm than good to the house scene, by seeking
mass-market publicity that will bring in "tourists" who will cause
damage to the scene. [see the history of the Grateful Dead scene]
Also the possibility of turning the rainbow people against ravers if
things are not handled well.

I agree the scene is a positive force and a hope for the future, and I want it
to stay that way. Growing organically seems to me to be a better way to keep
it sustainable.

Thanks to everyone who's participating in this discussion, and especially to
John who is compiling our postings to show to Fraser Clark so he can

house.34.38: Alan Turner (arturner) Mon 16 May 94 16:28

Is your ' key broken?

house.34.39: gregor markowitz (muddy) Tue 17 May 94 07:46

Firstly: A group of "Americas truly hip" went to central park at great
expense on the announced date of Michael Johns introduction of the
Zippy idea to the Rainbow Family (see previous post for zippie calander).
We (little we) found no zippie spokesperson, no zippie idea.
This is strange because M.J. phoned me from London last week to say
he would be there. What happened?

The theory is that Michael John, as dean of the "Parallel University",
who once ran afoul of the Rainbow Council on the land July 1-7 by
proclaiming himself a high priest of the Rainbow Family during a
court case, has
made certain promises he can't keep in regards to his ability to sway
the Rainbow Family.
If anything, his employment by Fraser Clark at the Megatripolis over
the past year has further voided his ability to speak for anyone but
Megatripolis and himself, due to potential conflict of interest.
It must be real nice to be the American guru-d00d at the megaclub
in London, but one must be very careful not to build one's resume up
too high about potential influence when there is none.

What we are seeing culturally is a classification and subclassification
of everything like musical fan groups. Once, in Woodstock times, there
was simply /rock'n'roll, but now a band is, for instance,
/rock'n'roll/electric/metal/speed/trance. This may have a purpose which
is to help achieve a new kind of catalog to reflect this computer
technology. Is it any wonder that cultural breakdowns mimic the dendridic
file structures of a computer system?
Now, as I read it, what the zippies vision says is: let's recurse,
let's jump back up the cultural directory and join the sub-directories
together into one large group. That is fine for a historical excercise
among like minded people to relive a day gone by, but out of what's
happening now in history.
I'm kinda into the recursive links, though, as they mirror some
of the web-spinning on the world wide web. A pointer to house here,
a reference to Rainbow there - too bad people don't have URLs tatooed
on their foreheads.

Probably the hardest part of the WIRED article for me is the picture
of the Megatripolis taken at the bar with the blank faced youth in the
background and the bare breasted dancer over the cash register in the
foreground. Any idea that needs to push alcohol in order to exist
ends up being another excuse to poison youth with death drugs.

Actually, Fraser, you would do well to serialize your club and sell
franchises in everytown USA. Dig, Megatripolis, Terre Haute. Hard
Rock Cafe did it. It will sweep America like the new "disco".
I remember in the early days of disco how hip it was. Then there
were generic discos everywhere and disco sucked.

Let me go on record as the first to call it: rave sucks.

RE #37 I don't think there is any danger whatsoever of turning the
rainbow people against ravers. All the ravers should go to the gathering.
All the rainbows should go to the grand canyon. I mean the ravers at
the gathering *are* the rainbows pure and simple. We can sit in council
with full speaking and consensus rights, We can sing any song along
the trail.

house.34.40: Gaia Passage BBS 912-265-0784 7pm-7am EST/EDT (mle) Tue 17 May 94 08:29


house.34.41: Fuzzy Logic (phred) Tue 17 May 94 12:57

I'll say. And as for 'rave' -- what's 'rave'? I haven't been to anything
that qualifies as to what 'rave' was for almost a year.
The Get Down Get Down Get Down Get Wicked at the Sonoma Fairgrounds was
last May 31. As M and P-ter will attest it 'changed my life' but it was
also the last of its kind, in my view. We're doing something else now,
I'm not sure what to call it. Chasing the vibe, anyway.

Rave started as all-night parties with music and people dancing and enjoying
themselves and each other. When trippy lights and door charges and four-
color flyers and floppy hats and smiley buttons (remember those?!) and even
chill spaces because *expected* or almost even *required* accessories, and
those peripherals started to *define* what it meant to 'have a rave', then
it was time to change, and change it has. What we are doing has to go on
with a different name, or even no name, if it will survive the ludicrous
efforts at commercialization and self-aggrandizement and expropriation that
it has undergone. Not to say that commercial events can't be good, for
to the contrary some of them have been the best of all (GD3GW being a good
example). It has more to do with the intentions of the organizers *and*
the participants, and there is no one 'way' to do it. As I recall the great
gatherings I've been to over the past year, whether it was an all-nighter
at the Galleria with Tony pumping the great house/trance for all of us and
a few street dudes who wandered in, or a forest up in the hills near Willits,
or a union hall overlooking Puget Sound, or a blue house near 28th and Church,
or the wooden temples of sound like La Luna (Portland) or 1015 Folsom, I'm
struck by the importance of *intentions* and *paying attention* to the
integrity of the event. No one person can cause it to be that way, which
is one of the reasons why this is such a temporary, transient scene with
a very powerful continuous undercurrent.

I wonder if Fraser Clark really understands that, or if he's more akin to
#5 or, perhaps in my more cynical moments, #3 . . .

house.34.42: Robert Castagnoli (coleman) Tue 17 May 94 20:35


house.34.43: come and hear... (miga) Wed 18 May 94 00:00

There's even a t-shirt. There are certainly overpriced, overhyped,
overcrowded and basically uncool "raves" and they've been around for a long
time. There are also campouts and loft parties and picnics and even parties
in clubs that just don't compare. My concern is that the Zippies are going
to make people who don't know otherwise think ravers suck. Even the big
commercial $20 parties around here are no alcohol, which has to be an
improvement. I don't mean to rant. I just want it to be clear that the
scene is not monolithic.

It's a new thing, and like Phred said in #41 it all depends on the p?6|eople
[ugh, line noise] Which is also true of telecomm...

house.34.44: dresses like lady godiva (humdog) Wed 18 May 94 07:34
{scribbled by humdog Wed 18 May 94 08:48}

house.34.45: Gareth Branwyn (gareth) Wed 18 May 94 07:53

Same OLD New Age.

house.34.46: Robert Lauriston (duck) Wed 18 May 94 10:38

You can trace rave-type events back to the be-ins and happenings of
the 60s, and before that back to the Bauhaus, dadaists, and surrealists.
It seems to be a constant byproduct of industrial societies, where the
middle class define themselves largely in terms of rebellion against
their own standards.

What are you rebelling against?

What have you got?

house.34.47: Jonathan E. (jeve) Wed 18 May 94 11:58

The significance of the Zippies is their inclusiveness - wide age range,
different socio-economic strata, etc., etc. A most welcome change. Of
course, Fraser Clark is trying to pay his rent - who isn't?

house.34.48: smiles in the morning (tow) Wed 18 May 94 13:11


house.34.49: Joshua Aasgaard M.A. - Freedom's Cradle (aasgaard) Wed 18 May 94 18:49


house.34.50: Mild-Mannered Memetician (kreth) Wed 18 May 94 19:09

It's a potlatch thang.

"Hey, trade ya a floppy of original Photoshop art for a tofu burrito?"

(Note: candy bars are a very valuable currency at the Gathering. d;^)

house.34.51: Joshua Aasgaard M.A. - Freedom's Cradle (aasgaard) Wed 18 May 94 20:53



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